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Duke Nukem 3D: 20th Anniversary World Tour

User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#3061

Nowadays, an average player can "beat" most of the games produced by AAA publishers. Even assuming that is a bad thing, I still don't see why hardcore players should complain about it. There are still plenty of other games out there which offer a more challenging experience, and in many cases the AAA games have modes (competitive multiplayer, harder difficulty settings) which are challenging. The video game industry has grown enormously since gaming became a thing that normal people do. There are many more games produced per year than there used to be -- and yes, a lot of them are designed for "casuals", but the industry has become so large that there are still tons designed for everyone else. When I was a teenager, I could count on my fingers the number of games in a year that I was interested in purchasing. Now, I have to pick and choose because I don't have the time or money to play everything I want to -- that's a good problem to have.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3062

View Postcybdmn, on 01 January 2019 - 10:05 AM, said:

Oh yeah, i remember the mass demos of casuals in front of EA and Activisions HQs, where hundreds of thousands casuals demanded the next Call of Honor to be less hard, with their wallets in their fists.

Really, i can't stand this whining. If you didn't like whats on the market, don't buy. It's as simple as that.

wtf are you crying about?

if you don't understand marketing and consumer driven products, that's your fault for being a socialist.

see? I can ramble nonsense too.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3063

View PostTrooper Dan, on 01 January 2019 - 07:21 PM, said:

The video game industry has grown enormously since gaming became a thing that normal people do.

A large part of the problem is demand exceeds supply.
The casuals want a new game from their franchise every year, but they don't want the prices to go up.
Now we get cheap, copy-paste games with minimal effort towards innovation in order to keep production costs down and the number of releases high.

This post has been edited by Forge: 01 January 2019 - 09:59 PM

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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#3064

View PostTrooper Dan, on 01 January 2019 - 07:21 PM, said:

There are still plenty of other games out there which offer a more challenging experience, and in many cases the AAA games have modes (competitive multiplayer, harder difficulty settings) which are challenging.


I will object to this one. The recent "trend" of difficult games is indeed recent, and still fairly niche. Very few gain widespread attention, and when they do, our friendly neighborhood journalists cry about it (Were it that they were the only ones). As for the difficulty settings... in the modern day, that doesn't count for much, as a lot of games with them throw them in more as an afterthought. They mess with damage values, and while that isn't inherently bad, it's usually taken as the quick and easy option. Just slap it on there and ship it. As a result, games which were primarily balanced for the "normal" difficulty (which tends to be pretty easy) wind up becoming very lopsided and sometimes RNG dependent.

I know it's sort of a bad example, but hear me out. DNF had this pretty bad. Anyone ever play Crash Course on Damn I'm Good? That damn turret section? It's a nightmare because the alien ships' HP is way too unbalanced for the brief moment they appear on screen. You're forced to be obscenely precise against fast moving tiny targets (because if you start firing when you can actually distinguish them from a fly on the screen, it's already too late), so precise that if you're using a controller it's pretty much literally impossible on a controller without taking advantage of the zoom function thanks to controller dead zones.

Now again, I know. It's DNF. And while that may be an extreme example, to be quite frank, most other AAA releases on harder difficulties aren't really all that much better. Even some games I like such as Wolfenstein The New Order have some glaring balancing issues on even the "standard" hard mode.


As for multiplayer, that really isn't a good substitute. Even setting aside the ridiculously poor state of modern AAA multiplayer, there are people like myself who just don't really care for multiplayer. For me, it's too chaotic, but not in a fun way for me to overcome. And there really isn't anything to overcome. You can throw in your cosmetics and arbitrary levels, but they don't really mean anything. You got everything, now what? I prefer the structured experience of a single player game with intelligently placed obstacles and enemies that stops when the credits roll.



I'm not saying we should go back to the 80s where cheap shots were abundant, but not to sound like some nostalgia nerd, I'd prefer if we went back to the mid-90s to early-mid 2000s era of difficulty. Where difficult games were in abundance but they were mostly fair. That was when the hardcore crowd was the only crowd. Nowadays we're the niche crowd. It wouldn't be so bad if there was more balance but there really isn't, and as I said above, most of the attempts to "appeal" to us are poorly and lazily implemented so they fall on their face. I can only think of a couple of games within the past five years that managed to be legitimately difficult.
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User is offline   Malgon 

#3065

I finally managed to get around to playing this tonight and got through it in one sitting. I don't know what the general consensus is about it (it's a big thread so it's going to take me a while!), but I feel a little mixed about it. I wasn't expecting to be blown away by it, but it's not completely horrible or anything. I can't quite pin down why it felt slightly off, but one thing that I found a bit frustrating was that too many of the areas were cramped or had too much in the way that kept impeding any movement, although this seemed to be more of an issue in the earlier levels. I did think the general feel of the levels improved as the game went along. Not much else to say really, except the final boss is as weak as everyone said it was. Not sure what they were thinking when they implemented that. :)
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#3066

Posted Image
3

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#3067

They weren't thinking. That is the problem. The new episode is good, not great, but good. The great thing is that they got a lot of the original people back to make a new Duke level, which I think (IMHO) is a great thing. People here don't seem to agree.

One big problem is that once the new levels were created, GBX dropped the ball on their end. They must have blown all their budget on a new renderer. Only minimal effort was spent on the networking - which I've been told is crap, I could never find anyone I knew who wanted to play it. They wound up pestering TX for some old sprites for the 'new' monster and then just did a palette swap on the Cycloid for the end Boss. They even buggered up copying the sound files from the old game.

It's very much like Levellord & Co. worked their asses off creating a new episode with new graphics and then Gearbox phoned in a minimal-effort hack job to get the package out the door.

Based on what happened with this 'product' I'm not holding my breath for whatever they have planned for the DNF beta release they have planned. I'd go as far as to say that as far as my interest in Duke is concerned, I'd say "Summon me when someone else gets the IP".

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 04 January 2019 - 03:14 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#3068

View Postcybdmn, on 01 January 2019 - 10:05 AM, said:

Really, i can't stand this whining. If you didn't like whats on the market, don't buy. It's as simple as that.


It's already happening, you fuckin dummy.

View PostTea Monster, on 04 January 2019 - 03:10 PM, said:

They weren't thinking. That is the problem. The new episode is good, not great, but good. The great thing is that they got a lot of the original people back to make a new Duke level, which I think (IMHO) is a great thing. People here don't seem to agree.

[CITATION NEEDED]

View PostTea Monster, on 04 January 2019 - 03:10 PM, said:

They wound up pestering TX for some old sprites for the 'new' monster and then just did a palette swap on the Cycloid for the end Boss.

Its actually worse than that. The sprites they were making in-house for the new monster were absolutely awful. TX pitied them and threw them a bone.
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User is offline   cybdmn 

#3069

View PostJimmy 100MPH, on 04 January 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

It's already happening, you fuckin dummy.


How old are you? 12?
-1

User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3070

View PostJimmy 100MPH, on 04 January 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

[CITATION NEEDED]

and who has the intestinal fortitude to scroll through Nancsi's post history?

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Forge: 04 January 2019 - 05:12 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#3071

View Postcybdmn, on 04 January 2019 - 04:48 PM, said:

How old are you? 12?

I might be twelve but at least I'm not a dumb little faggot like you.

View PostForge, on 04 January 2019 - 05:09 PM, said:

and who has the intestinal fortitude to scroll through Nancsi's post history?

Literally no one likes Negative Nancsi or takes them seriously.
-1

User is offline   NNC 

#3072

What the fucking hell are you two talking about?

Was I involved in this discussion or what?
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#3073

LMAO you mad m80 😂😂
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3074

View PostNancsi, on 24 November 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

Episode 5 is bigger than any of the other episodes, since most maps are bigger than all originals but Dark Side and Derelict, although after 20 years it could have been so much bigger. After the dust has settled, I have to say, it wasn't a good release

I braved the caverns of despair, the valley of death, and the swamp of diarrhea, to bring forth to you this gem
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User is offline   NNC 

#3075

View PostForge, on 05 January 2019 - 09:29 AM, said:

I braved the caverns of despair, the valley of death, and the swamp of diarrhea, to bring forth to you this gem


You fucking retard, I have been one of the most vocal supporters of all the vintage people returning to mapping (not just in Duke, but also Romero to return to create Sigil), opened a dedication thread to convince Allen Blum to join the community, defended WT against the likes of Jimmy and others who were shitting on it from day one, and you are insulting me for being negative or one who attacked the reunion? If you have read my posts of death, you even found daydreaming stuff like future episodes by Blum.

It wasn't a good release, that's a common knowledge. But it wasn't a less than good release because of Blum/Levelord/Jackson, but because of Gearbox laziness when they created their port, the unsupported bugs that are still there, the out of place graphics made by Nerve, the pisspoor boss 5, everyone knows that, in fact I was one of the latest people here who admitted it simply because the idea of the reunion was (and still is) an awesome thing for the 20th anniversary.

If you are not trolling here than you're just simply ignorant. But I guess you just threw in some unprovoked flamewar here. This is really the worst insult I've gotten here since I've registered.

And if you've diarrhea, check your meals, and don't eat too much shit.

This post has been edited by Nancsi: 05 January 2019 - 09:44 AM

-1

User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3076

View PostNancsi, on 05 January 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:

You fucking retard,

yes, yes.
You nitpick the fucking shit out each and every nuance in all the maps, make sure everyone knows there's only two tolerable maps in the entire episode, then candy-coat your turds with; 'even though the maps could have been done just as easily, and possibly better, by mrck or Pascal R, [sic] I'm still glad they (blum & levellord) were the ones to make them".

Posted Image

of course it should be expected that you'd be butthurt when someone points out your double-speak. You have no standards, except when it comes to finding a reason for nitpicking and complaining.

This post has been edited by Forge: 05 January 2019 - 10:09 AM

1

User is offline   NNC 

#3077

I literally can't believe what I see here. Is this april's fool day or what?
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3078

View PostNancsi, on 05 January 2019 - 10:08 AM, said:

I literally can't believe what I see here.

Don't worry about it. Obviously your memory of what you see and what you post is quite short. This will be forgotten in about half an hour.



View PostNancsi, on 04 May 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

Despite the negative points, I'm still happy that Levelord and especially Blum returned to mapping.


View PostNancsi, on 04 May 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

Despite


View PostNancsi, on 04 May 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

the negative points,


View PostNancsi, on 04 May 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

Despite the negative points,


View PostNancsi, on 04 May 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

Despite the negative points, I'm still happy that Levelord and especially Blum returned to mapping.


This post has been edited by Forge: 05 January 2019 - 10:15 AM

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User is offline   NNC 

#3079

OK friend, you won the argument, I give up.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3080

View PostNancsi, on 05 January 2019 - 10:19 AM, said:

OK friend, you won the argument, I give up.

You have a certain reputation and it started out as a joke.
It's okay not to take offense at everything, all the time.

For future reference I'll try to keep in mind that you don't like to be teased.

This post has been edited by Forge: 05 January 2019 - 10:44 AM

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User is offline   NNC 

#3081

I answered via PM. "Certain reputation", yeah, whatever. Aside from one heated debate with Jimmy 2 years ago, and my open disdain against some of Hendrick's antics, I didn't remember having a bad time on this forum or having issues with any people. If I'm hated here, than sorry.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#3082

As for the "filthy casuals" discussion:

The problem is that there aren't many hardcore gamers around to begin with. Why aren't there more people playing the new Quake nowadays for example? Back in the day the industry was a lot smaller and there were not many games to choose from so if you wanted a multiplayer shooter on PC you played Quake or UT. Most people did not enjoy getting plastered by better players in a game of skill so when the industry opened itself up for the "dude bros" they went to play other games. I still remember when UT3 came out and sure, its launch wasn't handled well and the game was missing some features that should have been there on PC but the game wasn't bad at all yet the launch sales were terrible. Why? Because people played CoD4 instead, hell, even those who picked up UT3 and said it was shit went on to play CoD4 instead of going back to UT2004.

Why? Because when it comes to stuff like arena FPS most of the so called "fans of old school arena shooters" are just showboaters: they haven't even touched the genre in a decade, they are just writing stupid posts about how they long for an AFPS from the good old days. When a new a game finally comes out they play one round, get destroyed thanks to the wonders of modern matchmaking where you no longer fight Joe from down the street in a LAN party and there, they get intimadated, blame the game and go play something else. Another new AFPS comes out? They won't even touch that, they'll just write more posts about how shit it is.

And this is going on on a larger spectrum in the gaming scene too with different genres (other example: 3D platformers vs. open world action adventure stuff like Assassin's Creed) while the industry is just serving the bigger audience. Welcome to the modern day of gaming.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 05 January 2019 - 11:22 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#3083

What the fuck are you talking about? I know dudes who still have LAN parties to play UT99 and The Specialists.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3084

View PostJimmy 100MPH, on 05 January 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

What the fuck are you talking about? I know dudes who still have LAN parties to play UT99 and The Specialists.

He's talking about nerfing skills and replacing them with "pay to win", then failing to understand why people talk negatively about casuals and what they have done to games

This post has been edited by Forge: 05 January 2019 - 11:45 AM

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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3085

View PostNancsi, on 05 January 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

I answered via PM. "Certain reputation", yeah, whatever.

Nobody "hates" you (that I know of), but denying that you have a certain, almost unachievable, standard of what is an acceptable duke3d map is kinda funny in of itself.

It's like you don't even understand that you complain and nitpick so much that there was a map made specifically for you with your name in the title - until you complained enough about that, that the authors were compeled to change it.

You not having enough self-awareness to comprehend that you have a "certain reputation" is why you end up being the butt of an occasional joke.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#3086

View PostForge, on 05 January 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

He's talking about nerfing skills and replacing them with "pay to win", then failing to understand why people talk negatively about casuals and what they have done to games

I was talking about how the large majority of the arena FPS audience evaporated because they went to games that offered a lower skill ceiling with more approachable gameplay. In CoD you don't have to care about controlling the map, you don't have to care about pickups, there are no advanced movement mechanics, all of the weapons demand a similar skillset (no projectiles vs. tracking vs. hitscan, usually just hitscan) and the outcome of a match is decided by the spawns on the noob to avarage skill levels = easier to play. And sure, there are people around who stuck to the more demanding, old school titles just like there are people who keep games like Quake Champions alive but it is a smaller niche than fighting games now and not because the suits came in, decided to casualize the market and people just ate that shit up but because most people genuinely wanted those casualized games (even in the 90s).

Sure, the industry got bigger and now there are significantly more casuals than back in the day but they were always there and they were always the majority.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 05 January 2019 - 11:56 AM

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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3087

casuals are nothing new.
casuals are why atari released the E.T. they did

money and lack of care about the real gamers reaction


Now we have zero-skill, loot-box games. Everyone's a winner & the publishers make bank off of casuals and week-end warriors.

This post has been edited by Forge: 05 January 2019 - 12:08 PM

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User is offline   NNC 

#3088

View PostForge, on 05 January 2019 - 11:52 AM, said:

Nobody "hates" you (that I know of), but denying that you have a certain, almost unachievable, standard of what is an acceptable duke3d map is kinda funny in of itself.

It's like you don't even understand that you complain and nitpick so much that there was a map made specifically for you with your name in the title - until you complained enough about that, that the authors were compeled to change it.

You not having enough self-awareness to comprehend that you have a "certain reputation" is why you end up being the butt of an occasional joke.


"Acceptable" means outstanding? I can easily pick up at least 50 outstanding Duke maps from various authors. I've been defending TM against many people for example (OK, it wasn't outstanding, but far from as bad as many said), also a huge fan of LRWB, DNF2013, even less celebrated mods like JJDuke E3 or Lost Highway. Not to mention the many great maps the original authors created. Or the many great usermaps from The Dream to Traffic Jam.

What you are talking about is simple analyzing. Leveldesign is the thing I'm interested at most in these games, and tend to analyze levels. Not nitpicking them, but analyzing how they are structured, what are their unique features and such. Like other people write reviews of books, pictures, movies, whatever, I like analyzing maps, because it's a form of art. Of course nitpicking stuff is part of the game, but usually I nitpick stuff I really enjoy, and leave the lesser ones alone.

Pouring salt to 10 year old wounds is pretty lousy. That pleaser thing was like 10 years ago or more, people moved on, and should move on, instead of bringing that thing up every other year. And MRCK later admitted the cleaner design he used for that map was more professional than any of his previous work. Many of my then arguments became accepted rules. I often said overdetailing is not looking good, fake doors are annoying, unnecessary color schemes are ugly, overused spritework both inflate what is relevant in the map and what isn't, and also hinder your free movement. I often said the overuse of switches and keys is a chore, especially with lots of backtrackking, or in areas where you don't know what the switch opened.

That's all, you guys can laugh at me for shitting up threads with these things, but this is what I'm interested in, and I don't think it's really a despicable thing.
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User is offline   NNC 

#3089

I remember getting downvotes in Ion Maiden thread when I said the second quarter of the preview campaign was inflated with secrets which means finding secrets is becoming a chore instead of fun. Does that mean I "hate" the game or at least that segment? Big. Fucking. No. I can't wait to play it.

This post has been edited by Nancsi: 05 January 2019 - 12:53 PM

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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3090

You're doing everything you can to prove that you deserve the reputation you have.

refer back to my post about your lack of self-awareness.

'nuff said.
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