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Unreal Thread  "A place for discussing Unreal"

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#91

Dude. It's from 1998. The very era of the N64. Is that a joke?

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 27 May 2018 - 07:10 PM

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User is offline   Avoozl 

#92

I didn't intend to joke nor say anything ill-mannered, I just mean I find it odd that they used that kind of method on a PC game which is supposed to be on more advanced hardware, I would've expected some 3D mountains hiding the edge.

This post has been edited by Grand Admiral Thrawn: 29 May 2018 - 06:52 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#93

That's all they could do at the time, man. 3D mountains in the distance? That was a pipe dream in 1998 on any platform.
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User is offline   cybdmn 

#94

View PostGrand Admiral Thrawn, on 29 May 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

I didn't intend to joke nor say anything ill-mannered, I just mean I find it odd that they used that kind of method on a PC game which is supposed to be on more advanced hardware, I would've expected some 3D mountains hiding the edge.



How old are you? Back in 98 the more advanced PC had an Pentium II CPU at anywhere between 233 and 450 MHz, maybe 16 MB (Mega, not Giga) of RAM and an maybe an Voodoo2 card for the fancy effects. The whole geometry had to be calculated through that Pentium II. The first consumer graphics card, which helped with the geometry calculation, the GeForce 256, was released somewhere in 1999.

Go buy the crappiest smartphone from china you can find, and you still have more computing power in your hand than an 1998 high-end gaming PC could deliver.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#95

View PostGrand Admiral Thrawn, on 29 May 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

I didn't intend to joke nor say anything ill-mannered, I just mean I find it odd that they used that kind of method on a PC game which is supposed to be on more advanced hardware, I would've expected some 3D mountains hiding the edge.


If they did have 3D mountains in the distance, they would be incredibly simple. By having 2D objects, they could make the outline and general appearance far more complex.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#96

Also, you have to remember that most systems could only go 640x480 max. Maybe 800x600 at the time (super systems would go 1024x768). But most people played on 320x240. I know I did. When I got a Voodoo 1 I could go 640x480, but that was it. That's also a factor that can trick the eye into filling in more detail than exists for distant 2D objects.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#97

This is an accurate summary of how it felt to run Unreal back in the day:

https://youtu.be/ZjS6rLKnU0c?t=5m3s

A lot of us were happy to have such an amazing tech demo on our computer to show off to our friends. The fact that you could actually play it and it was a decent game was an added bonus.
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User is offline   leilei 

#98

That'd be way too smooth in my experience. 20 years ago Unreal was quite slow and unoptimized originally, and that's including in the Glide renderer and on the 3dfx Voodoo2 12MB at the time. Patches improved on it since (while taking out stuff, like say dispersion pistol's trail and dropping the model smoothing effects off)

View Postcybdmn, on 29 May 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

How old are you? Back in 98 the more advanced PC had an Pentium II CPU at anywhere between 233 and 450 MHz, maybe 16 MB (Mega, not Giga) of RAM and an maybe an Voodoo2 card for the fancy effects. The whole geometry had to be calculated through that Pentium II. The first consumer graphics card, which helped with the geometry calculation, the GeForce 256, was released somewhere in 1999.

32MB was already standard by 1997 and would be quite unusual and rare for a P2 to have a 16MB configuration, especially in 1998 and especially since P2 is more of the expensive luxury item (the more budget minded had AMD K6s and Celeron 300As, which ran Unreal just as fine then)

UnrealEngine1 pushes all verts/polys through software anyway, no fancy card will help you there. Hell, its volumetric fog/light effect (even in the Glide renderer) is still purely software rendered real-time texture generation tricks using lots of tiny textures. I'm still curious about the sweeney magic involved in that code because it wasn't something easily done until DX10.

This post has been edited by leilei: 30 May 2018 - 12:33 AM

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User is offline   cybdmn 

#99

View Postleilei, on 30 May 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

That'd be way too smooth in my experience. 20 years ago Unreal was quite slow and unoptimized originally, and that's including in the Glide renderer and on the 3dfx Voodoo2 12MB at the time. Patches improved on it since (while taking out stuff, like say dispersion pistol's trail and dropping the model smoothing effects off)


This! I remember i had to apply two or three patches alone to get UnrealED running.

View Postleilei, on 30 May 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

32MB was already standard by 1997 and would be quite unusual and rare for a P2 to have a 16MB configuration, especially in 1998 and especially since P2 is more of the expensive luxury item (the more budget minded had AMD K6s and Celeron 300As, which ran Unreal just as fine then)


Sorry, you are right about the RAM. But if i remember correctly, the Celeron 300 wasn't that fast, it was the 333 MHz Celeron A which had a higher framerate in Quake II than the P2 at the same clock rate. At least that was my CPU at that time.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#100

All I remember about Celerons were that they sucked. After some point they apparently got better but I was already past it.
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User is offline   leilei 

#101

I mentioned the 300A in particular because it's well-known to be an overclockable monster. 500mhz+ in 1998 was attainable to the point Intel got scared into making multiplier locks.

This post has been edited by leilei: 30 May 2018 - 02:25 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#102

That would explain it. I had a Celeron 266 before moving on to a Pentium 4.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#103

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 29 May 2018 - 07:04 AM, said:

That's all they could do at the time, man. 3D mountains in the distance? That was a pipe dream in 1998 on any platform.


Dude, where have you been? I played games with real 3D mountains in the background back in 1980!
Posted Image
:(

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 30 May 2018 - 09:57 PM

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User is offline   X-Vector 

#104

Damn, I thought I was cool playing games with real 3D mountains in the background in the mid-'80s.

Posted Image
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#105

:(

I remember when it Unreal came out. My workmate kept dying as he stopped to admire the flame effects and got eviscerated by Skaarjs.

We were addicted to Blues News and would pounce on the latest game announcements, comparing the screens of the latest game to come out with our established favourites.

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 31 May 2018 - 12:42 AM

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User is offline   cybdmn 

#106

BluesNews back in the 90ies. Oh yes, they had it all, informations about the games to come and the hottest news graphics cards.
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User is offline   Aristotle Gumball 

  • banned!

#107

DX11 renderer for Unreal 1 engine games. I've been playing Klingon Honor Guard for the first time with a widescreen resolution and anti-aliasing. Might be worth trying out on some other games.
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#108

Crazy. And I was already glad about Chris Dohnal's DX9 renderer many years ago...

This post has been edited by NightFright: 17 September 2020 - 01:24 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#109

Oh snap!
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User is online   Lunick 

#110

Just as an FYI, that renderer has a little (annoying) Paypal link that pops up in the bottom right corner, you can disable it by looking for "SupportMETextEnabled=" in UnrealTournament.ini
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#111

There had to be a catch. But well, if it can be disabled rather easily, I can live with it. The whole thing just needs to work and run stable. Has anybody already tried it in Unreal?
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User is offline   Aristotle Gumball 

  • banned!

#112

I tried it in Unreal. Works fine, but you might want to tweak the settings and especially disable/edit SSR. You just get reflections everywhere, on surfaces that don't need it.
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User is online   Lunick 

#113

I wasn't sure which setting to disable to get rid of those reflections but after doing so, I got much better performance benefits.
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#114

And the normal/height maps that can be downloaded separately? Are they making any visual difference?
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User is offline   Aristotle Gumball 

  • banned!

#115

Yeah, pretty big difference when you get close to a surface. Tesselation also smooths out all the models, so it looks like the poly count is higher.
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#116

This is quite neat. I really thought Dohnal's DX10 renderer was the max you could get out of Unreal engine games. I updated my Unreal Gold, UT99, Undying and Deus Ex NV backup copies accordingly with these new drivers. A pity there's nothing for Wheel of Time, that one could have used an update quite badly, too.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#117

So this DOES work with KHG? Because that game was never updated to the latest Unreal 1 version (well, there's a fan patch but it's way unfinished and breaks the game).
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User is offline   Aristotle Gumball 

  • banned!

#118

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 18 September 2020 - 05:05 AM, said:

So this DOES work with KHG? Because that game was never updated to the latest Unreal 1 version (well, there's a fan patch but it's way unfinished and breaks the game).


There's some kind of patch included in my version, but seems it's to do with glide stuff.

KHG does work, I'm a fair ways into the game, but it likes to change the resolution sometimes, and on the initial start of a mission, you get this black screen called "curtain" that blocks your view, but... you can easily close it from the taskbar and it doesn't seem to affect the game in any way.

So, a bit buggy, but I haven't actually experienced any crashes/problems mid-gameplay.

I also wanted to say how much I'm enjoying KHG in general. The production value is quite high if you ignore the bugs. You end up using melee weapons often since everything else is projectile based (no hitscanners), meaning you can easily sneak up on enemies. I recommend doing that in the earliest stages.

This post has been edited by Cartaphallus: 18 September 2020 - 05:20 AM

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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#119

Maybe you could even directly integrate that new renderer into your standalone version, provided there is no clause in the D3D11 driver readme that prevents you from doing so.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#120

I love KHG. Still have the discs (but lost the box sadly). I made a patch years ago that cracks the cd requirement and also converted the music to UMX files so the music works without the disc. I also made a custom music patch with seamless looping. I made edits to every map (not easy with that ancient buggy version of UnrealEd) that changes the music dynamically based on location and new areas you discover. I'll link it when I get home later.

The reason it changes resolutions is because there are cutscene videos (which I can never get working anymore) which play between some levels and are at a specific resolution.

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 18 September 2020 - 05:53 AM

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