Ninety-Six, on 23 April 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:
The Serious Sam Thread "In anticipation for SS4"
#181 Posted 23 April 2018 - 02:27 PM
#182 Posted 23 April 2018 - 02:28 PM
#183 Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:44 PM
#184 Posted 23 April 2018 - 07:54 PM
Ninety-Six, on 23 April 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:
That wasn't a whole level though, it was just a huge building. I sure as shit can't name another FPS where you have to fight a BUILDING BLOCK though.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 23 April 2018 - 08:01 PM
#185 Posted 23 April 2018 - 08:29 PM
Ninety-Six, on 23 April 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:
Even if you don't want to care Croteam makes you care with all their weird story decisions, especially when it comes to retcons. Their "we don't agree with SS2 anymore" attitude is just the tip of the iceberg, it's like if they were embarrassed about some elements of the SS story from hindsight. For example I remember when I fired up TSE HD for the first time and there was no intro, the game just started with Sam standing at the beginning of the first level. I got curious so I went to the Steam forums and of course there were a few "where is the intro?" threads. Croteam said they removed the intro because they thought it was too silly (if you remember TSE started with Sam crash landing on Earth again after his space ship collided with those big headed "fans" - the development team basically - who ride on crates)...
...but now if you fire up TSE HD in Fusion you will see the original intro somewhat remade with HD assets. Guess it's not too silly anymore because the fans liked the original.
Really the problem of the franchise when it comes to its story is that Serious Sam was never meant to be much more than a tech demo. There was a story of course but you know, the game was a garage project so they never put much thought into it (hell, for TFE and TSE John J. Dick, the voice of Sam came up with most of the one-liners, he just played the game and when something silly came to his mind he wrote it down, there were no writers ). Then after SS2 things changed, Croteam started to take the story more seriously and that's why SS3 ignores SS2 altogether. For example the Sirians were stupid cartoon aliens in jumpsuits in SS2 but in SS3 they became this ancient alien race with vast knowledge so now they look completely different (you can see a Sirian in SS3 when you pick up the Sirian Bracelet).
This kind of stuff makes me interested in the story, especially since Croteam said that they hired Jonas Kyratzes, one of the writers of The Talos Principle to work on SS4's story. Talos had an amazing storyline so SS4 is the first game in the franchise where I actually have expectations for the writing, I'm excited to see where Kyratzes takes it.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 23 April 2018 - 08:32 PM
#186 Posted 23 April 2018 - 09:15 PM
Zaxx, on 23 April 2018 - 08:29 PM, said:
They sort of portrayed that way in TFE, as well, going by the NETRICSA logs. In fact the original backstory to TFE was kind of intense, even making Sam sort of a semi-suicidal figure in his insistence on taking on thousands of monsters at once.
Reading this is extremely bizarre.
#187 Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:12 PM
Ninety-Six, on 23 April 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:
Reading this is extremely bizarre.
And you can find this all in the NETRICSA stuff? I always read those (pretty long ago though ) and all I remember from TFE are character and mission objective descriptions with a bit of Egyptian history put in there. I don't know much about the latter though, when I was in Egypt and I saw the Hatshepsut temple the only thing I could think of was "wow, this looks exactly like the first level in Serious Sam".
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I think this would be great as the backstory of SS4, it's like the original version of Deadshot from DC Comics where Deadshot just wanted to die in battle but he's just too good so that never happens. Since the character of Sam never had much of a backstory I think it would be great if he was some disillusioned soldier guy who wants to die but he rejects the idea of suicide so when Mental invades Earth he just goes out to get himself killed. Like in the case of Deadshot that of course never happens, instead he finds out that he's a natural alien ass kicker so passion returns to his life.
I mean this could be actual character development for Sam but it's also silly enough for a Serious Sam game and I think most fans would be interested in a prequel that is actually about Sam, a "Serious Sam Begins" so to speak.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 23 April 2018 - 10:15 PM
#188 Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:28 PM
Zaxx, on 23 April 2018 - 10:12 PM, said:
Well most of it was only hinted at in-game. I was mostly referring to the way Sirians were presented in the NETRICSA logs, which was indeed like mystical super aliens that in the end were still felled by humanity when they rebelled against their "gods."
Zaxx, on 23 April 2018 - 10:12 PM, said:
I mean this could be actual character development for Sam but it's also silly enough for a Serious Sam game and I think most fans would be interested in a prequel that is actually about Sam, a "Serious Sam Begins" so to speak.
Part of it is also responsibility, since he was the one who awakened Mental. So in addition to feeling like he needs to pay for his "crime," he also feels that it's his job to take on Mental. This is why I referred to Final Fight earlier, because it really does seem like the song was written from the perspective of Sam and addressed directly to Mental.
I would be extremely interested if 4 took the route you described where he slowly awakened into his wise-cracking asskicking self, but if The Last Hope is to be taken as canon then chances are low (I am assuming Planet Badass is a direct prequel to BFE much in the same way BFE was a direct prequel to TFE).
#189 Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:52 PM
Ninety-Six, on 23 April 2018 - 10:28 PM, said:
Oh yeah, that's something I would like to actually see in SS4 for a change, fleshing out the backstory of the franchise is what a prequel should do in the case of SS.
Btw. I've never played Last Hope, all I know about it is that it's a VR game Croteam made to help fund the development of SS4. It had a story?
#190 Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:59 PM
I'd recommend looking up some footage of the game (including the briefings which a lot of videos leave out) if you can't play VR, since some of Sam's lines are utter gems.
This post has been edited by Ninety-Six: 23 April 2018 - 11:01 PM
#191 Posted 24 April 2018 - 12:14 AM
Ninety-Six, on 23 April 2018 - 10:59 PM, said:
Nice. Croteam is not an "inefficient" company and they are certainly not above reusing assets so chances are we'll see that setting in SS4 too.
#192 Posted 24 April 2018 - 12:15 AM
#193 Posted 24 April 2018 - 12:56 AM
Ninety-Six, on 24 April 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:
Apart from France I don't think much is confirmed, it could be anything at this point.
Btw. it's good to see that Croteam is using the currently limited VR market to make some money but man, Last Hope costs 37 euros on Steam. Isn't that a bit much for a 2 hour long "lightgun shooter"?
#194 Posted 24 April 2018 - 01:18 AM
It's an excerpt from the original Serious Sam design document, which outlined what the original Serious Sam was going to be about before it was reworked into The First Encounter. Basically, the original Serious Sam plans is TFE and SS2 combined (Egypt>Planetoids>Sirius).
It's not canon anymore and many details have changed since then (such as Mental no longer being a brain in a jar), but still worth a read as all Sam titles except TSE are derived from the basic plot outline laid out here.
Here's a transcript of what's visible:
Ninety-Six, on 23 April 2018 - 10:28 PM, said:
The Sirians aren't felled by humanity, they're just wiped out for being the most intelligent species around at that time. They're just highly advanced in technology, but they have no magic like Mental does (and were only beginning to learn magic from the Kleers before Mental's arrival). The ones on Earth are told to hide the Timelock (which is of unknown origins) from Mental and they eventually went insane and died themselves by the time Sam arrived in TFE.
The confirmed locations in SS4 so far is France and Italy, along with a third location they're not revealing yet.
#195 Posted 24 April 2018 - 02:40 AM
This post has been edited by NightFright: 24 April 2018 - 02:41 AM
#196 Posted 24 April 2018 - 02:49 AM
Of note though, is that apparently during the development of Serious Engine 3, they've digitized many parts of Croatia into the engine (I think one or two made it in as SS3's deathmatch maps).
The Villa from SS3 Survival is supposedly based off Makarska:
The Fiaca from SS3 Deathmatch is supposedly based off Dubrovnik:
(yes, it kinda looks like cs_italy :V)
#197 Posted 24 April 2018 - 03:14 AM
Zaxx, on 24 April 2018 - 12:56 AM, said:
As far as I've heard it's the best in its genre. I can't confirm myself because I severely lack the funds and rig to run a VR game, especially one as intense as Sam.
PikaCommando, on 24 April 2018 - 01:18 AM, said:
I'm pretty sure the Egyptian gods were the Sirians themselves. NETRICSA constantly refers to "riots" committed by the people of Memphis against Thebes, and Thebes is where all the Sirian tech is located. I'm pretty sure at one point NETRICSA even outright says the Sirians were literally worshipped as gods.
I was stating earlier how ironic it is that the second half of the original SS1 plan had never come to pass. Instead we got two sequels, one of which has been ejected from canon, the other will also be seeing a big rewrite, and then just prequels.
#199 Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:47 AM
Tea Monster, on 24 April 2018 - 06:31 AM, said:
Surprisingly, yes. They were serious about the story for TFE. After the game came out and people focused on how "wacky and unexpected" it is, those comments got into CT's head and they decided to focus on being sillier starting with TSE, which continued into SSX and SS2 (by the way, the reason it's named Serious Sam 2 is because it's the sequel to the Xbox version of Serious Sam, not the PC Encounters it was combined from). Fortunately, SS2's failure which led to their near-bankruptcy smacked their heads right again and they became serious with SS3 again.
Ninety-Six, on 24 April 2018 - 03:14 AM, said:
I'm pretty sure the Egyptian gods were the Sirians themselves. NETRICSA constantly refers to "riots" committed by the people of Memphis against Thebes, and Thebes is where all the Sirian tech is located. I'm pretty sure at one point NETRICSA even outright says the Sirians were literally worshipped as gods.
Yup, the Sirians that went insane used their technology to play gods and pharoahs (which they weren't supposed to because it might alert Mental to their presence on Earth).
This post has been edited by PikaCommando: 24 April 2018 - 06:50 AM
#200 Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:46 AM
PikaCommando, on 24 April 2018 - 06:47 AM, said:
Eh, they didn't "become serious again" - BFE is a major tone shift compared to TFE. As major as SS2, I'd claim.
This post has been edited by necroslut: 24 April 2018 - 07:47 AM
#201 Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:58 AM
Ninety-Six, on 24 April 2018 - 03:14 AM, said:
No need to worry, the last time I heard they are thinking about adding flat support to Last Hope so eventually you might be able to play it without using a VR headset. I don't know what would be the point of that though, the way I see it Last Hope is good because it's a VR game, if you lose that aspect then guess the fact that it really doesn't play like SS (no movement, no exploration etc.) starts bothering you.
Anyway I doubt that it's the best in the genre, I mean you can play TFE HD, TSE HD and SS3 in VR too (and I'm sure SS4 will have that feature too). I guess some people might have problems with full locomotion and whatnot but still, those are 15 hours long full FPS experiences.
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I find it weird how Croteam doesn't even acknowledge Next Encounter exists. There may be some legal problems there because even though it wasn't developed by them it's a pretty awesome console shooter, especially the GameCube version which runs at 60 fps. It's worth it to fire up the Dolphin emulator and play it, I don't think anyone could be disappointed, NE is pure Serious Sam fine tuned for consoles.
#202 Posted 24 April 2018 - 08:04 AM
necroslut, on 24 April 2018 - 07:46 AM, said:
I wouldn't call BFE a major tonal change (it's less colourful and a lot more violent than the previous entries but that's all) but you can really feel on it that Croteam was afraid to use anything that could be considered cartoony after SS2's bad reception.
Basically if they made SS4's graphics more colourful along with adding more color to the arsenal while keeping SS3's over-the-top violence and R rated language intact I think the result would be the perfect Sam game.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 24 April 2018 - 08:08 AM
#203 Posted 24 April 2018 - 10:24 AM
I remember seeing Serious Sam for the first time on a jewel case display in Radio Shack or something. I wrote it off as a cheap knock-off of Duke Nukem seeing as they looked so similar. Never ever tried it. I noticed that Milkshape 3D back in the day had support for it which confused me. But it wasn't until The First Encounter HD came out that I actually got to see what it was like. I couldn't believe I hadn't played it before. I wish I would have back in the day. Love the series now!
This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 24 April 2018 - 10:26 AM
#204 Posted 24 April 2018 - 10:55 AM
But SS on the other hand started to get his own fanbase, for being some new kind of FPS. It was the originator of the „Arena FPSs“.
#205 Posted 24 April 2018 - 11:49 AM
This post has been edited by NightFright: 24 April 2018 - 11:50 AM
#206 Posted 24 April 2018 - 11:51 AM
#207 Posted 24 April 2018 - 01:01 PM
I remember how excited I was about TFE back in the days. There weren't many games with an Egyptian scenario and the game looked pretty nice when it was first released. Gotta play everything again on Fusion once it's out of beta (if that will ever happen). Would come in handy if they finished it for the new game.
#208 Posted 24 April 2018 - 01:05 PM
#209 Posted 24 April 2018 - 02:03 PM
NightFright, on 24 April 2018 - 01:01 PM, said:
Even though Fusion is in beta I find it a lot more polished than the original version when it comes SS3 both in performance and in gameplay, it's an interesting, somewhat new experience. Most enemies have new power attacks on hard and serious difficulty that are harder to avoid and do a lot of damage, you can change and reload weapons while sprinting, cancel reloading if you have ammo left in a clip, there are some new secret areas and tons of bugs were fixed. It has a better flow.
As for TFE HD and TSE HD: SS3 received most of the changes so in the case of the HD remakes you basically get more stable, better performing and nicer looking versions. It's nothing substantial but the originals are pretty old now so Fusion should be the obvious choice these days. Overall I think the beta state has to do with the fact that Vulkan and DX12 still have a few issues so the DX11 renderer is what you should use as of now.
The only downside to Fusion is that the majority of the playerbase is yet to come over so if you want to play co-op Fusion is not that populated. There are enough players though and jumping between 3 games in co-op sessions is a great experience.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 24 April 2018 - 02:11 PM
#210 Posted 24 April 2018 - 02:29 PM
necroslut, on 24 April 2018 - 07:46 AM, said:
I'd disagree. TSE, sure, but TFE and BFE are fairly similar in tone. TFE was still taking itself at least a little bit seriously, while still having fun, much like BFE. NETRICSA was also a lot more subdued in TFE, versus in TSE where she had a lot more personality all of a sudden.
Zaxx, on 24 April 2018 - 07:58 AM, said:
By "genre" I referred specifically to the "stand and shoot" style of gameplay a lot of VR games go for.
Zaxx, on 24 April 2018 - 07:58 AM, said:
They acknowledged it once to say it was non-canon, though I assume that's simply because they didn't make the game and therefore didn't have any control over it. I wish I could find a copy or alternatively someone ports it to the PC in the same vein as Half-Life Decay or PSX Doom since I never had the chance to play it and it does look like a fun legit Sam game.
NightFright, on 24 April 2018 - 01:01 PM, said:
I don't remember what I paid for TFE back in the day. But that copy was long since lost. I got all my steam copies when Sam went to the Humble Bundle, though, a few years back. So I got the entire (Steam) Sam collection for $1. Because I'm poor! =D
I feel bad about it, but it was I could get all the Sam games including both versions of TFE and TSE (and I never actually played TSE back when, only TFE) for insanely cheap, or I don't play any of them for a long time, and collect them very piecemeal.
I'd love to make it up to Croteam sometime since of all the devs out there they're one of the ones who really deserve it, but that's not possible right now.
This post has been edited by Ninety-Six: 24 April 2018 - 02:30 PM