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DNF #1
Duke 3D #1
Now that it's been fixed, Polymer looks pretty good. It still needs the annoying problem with the gloss shaders fixed, but if it can be salvaged somehow, it's a nice looking renderer.
Polymer lives again
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#242 Posted 18 August 2017 - 10:56 AM
Hendricks266, on 18 August 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:
Polymost's performance issues are due to use of old APIs and the complete lack of any batching. Polymer needs a lot of restructuring so that the GPU isn't constantly synchronizing and waiting on the CPU.
Interesting you'd say that because polymost runs amazingly well and it always did for me. WT provides better performance than EDuke32's classic renderer and polymer for me, polymost always felt great.
- Weaponized Autism
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#243 Posted 18 August 2017 - 10:59 AM
Polymost does run extremely quickly, but if you're, say, using a shim layer to make it run under GL ES for your Android/iOS source port, or if you're making a brand new BUILD game with complex architecture and detailed visual effects, it's easy to put it into situations that it struggles with unnecessarily.
#244 Posted 18 August 2017 - 11:13 AM
Zaxx, on 17 August 2017 - 02:05 AM, said:
Hardware: GTX 970, i7 2600, 16 gigs of RAM, Windows 10 64 bit.
On my end, EDuke32 uses the Intel graphics chip by default and I have to choose the nVidia card in nVidia's control panel. Maybe that is the reason why polymer is running that bad on your system.
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#245 Posted 18 August 2017 - 11:17 AM
blizzart, on 18 August 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:
On my end, EDuke32 uses the Intel graphics chip by default and I have to choose the nVidia card in nVidia's control panel. Maybe that is the reason why polymer is running that bad on your system.
It's not a laptop, it's a desktop PC and the integrated GPU is fully disabled (in the BIOS) and not plugged into the monitor of course. Practically it doesn't exist.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 18 August 2017 - 11:21 AM
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#246 Posted 18 August 2017 - 11:22 AM
Hendricks266, on 18 August 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:
Polymost does run extremely quickly, but if you're, say, using a shim layer to make it run under GL ES for your Android/iOS source port, or if you're making a brand new BUILD game with complex architecture and detailed visual effects, it's easy to put it into situations that it struggles with unnecessarily.
Sooo can we expect something shiny and new on the technical side for Ion Maiden?
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#248 Posted 18 August 2017 - 11:29 AM
Hendricks266, on 18 August 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:
You mean EDuke32?
I'm just guessing of course but yes, I meant EDuke32 by the time Ion Maiden comes out (which runs on EDuke32, right?). A new ED32 + Ion Maiden would be perfect timing.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 18 August 2017 - 11:31 AM
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#250 Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:01 PM
Okay, thought I'd share some of the benchmark stuff. It's not perfect but it will do and I used RTSS this time for better monitoring. I also turned on ED32's fps counter and WT's dnrate options (though thanks to Youtube's compression magic have fun actually seeing the small numbers of dnrate) and changed the test level to High Times because that one really gives the game a workout.
ED32 Classic Renderer vs. WT's Classic Mode (I won't do true 3d vs. polymer because frankly it's pointless, WT is the clear victor, end of story):
Now please don't downvote me because I have double the fps in WT, take it like a man!
And no, I did not think High Times would cripple the ED32 classic renderer this much.
ED32 Classic Renderer vs. WT's Classic Mode (I won't do true 3d vs. polymer because frankly it's pointless, WT is the clear victor, end of story):
Now please don't downvote me because I have double the fps in WT, take it like a man!
And no, I did not think High Times would cripple the ED32 classic renderer this much.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 18 August 2017 - 12:09 PM
#251 Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:17 PM
This may sound silly, but wouldn't one possible "optimisation" be actually rendering at half res then just upscaling that to your monitor's resolution. Not sure if there are many playing Duke 3D with the classic renderer on a 4K+ display though lol
Edit: Just noticed, said option already exists in eduke32
Edit: Just noticed, said option already exists in eduke32
This post has been edited by Phredreeke: 18 August 2017 - 12:28 PM
- Evil Overlord
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#252 Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:23 PM
BTW, the FOV is much lower in WT, and the shading is/seems incorrect.
Do you have a full resolution 1080p screenshot of the first scene in that map, just to rule out YouTube compression. Just load up the map without touching any controls and stand there a moment and then take a snap in both programs. Make sure there are no messages or HUD (weapon is good, but not the rest of the HUD). Just trying to make sure I'm not nuts on the shading problem.
Do you have a full resolution 1080p screenshot of the first scene in that map, just to rule out YouTube compression. Just load up the map without touching any controls and stand there a moment and then take a snap in both programs. Make sure there are no messages or HUD (weapon is good, but not the rest of the HUD). Just trying to make sure I'm not nuts on the shading problem.
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#253 Posted 18 August 2017 - 01:59 PM
Mblackwell, on 18 August 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:
BTW, the FOV is much lower in WT, and the shading is/seems incorrect.
Yes, the FoV is lower but I don't think it's that much since the patch (-5 degrees maybe? Before the patch it was just as bad as Megaton in 16:9) and yep, the image quality seems a bit worse too. I think it's just how the renderer works honestly, seems like they opted for a smoother, brighter image instead of a sharper one to emulate the feel of the original resolution.
Here are the images:
EDuke32:
http://i.imgur.com/Xp9BxLJ.png
WT:
http://i.imgur.com/Vb2k0JV.jpg
Edit: Anyway I'm really sad about one thing when it comes to WT (or to EDuke32 for that matter but there this limitation is expected): the lack of a proper FoV slider.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 18 August 2017 - 02:03 PM
- el fundador
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#254 Posted 18 August 2017 - 03:08 PM
Ohh, yeah, WT is definitely rendering at a lower res. No wonder you're seeing higher fps! That's one of the other things about rendering the buffer to a texture and just displaying that texture stretched to the screen resolution... who knows what the original rendering res was before upscaling. We used the same trick to gain perf in HTTKC before that was cancelled. If you're happy with that kind of blurry appearance, go ahead and run EDuke32 at 1280x720 for a closer comparison.
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#255 Posted 18 August 2017 - 04:07 PM
TerminX, on 18 August 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:
Ohh, yeah, WT is definitely rendering at a lower res. No wonder you're seeing higher fps! That's one of the other things about rendering the buffer to a texture and just displaying that texture stretched to the screen resolution... who knows what the original rendering res was before upscaling. We used the same trick to gain perf in HTTKC before that was cancelled. If you're happy with that kind of blurry appearance, go ahead and run EDuke32 at 1280x720 for a closer comparison.
Actually when I'm playing ED32 with the classic renderer I usually run the game at 720p: better performance + I feel it is closer to how I remember the game looking with a bit of "modern compromise". As for WT the lower rendering resolution (if it's that, I dunno, it certainly looks like it but it can be just a different kind of filtering or something like that) works for me but if I'm using true 3D rendering I up the game to 1440p with DSR.
