Duke Nukem 3D: 20th Anniversary World Tour

Sledgehammer

Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#1891 Posted 15 October 2016 - 12:30 AM

Is it normal that I could handle control in Powerslave for DOS but can't play this re-release? That's what I call "made with consoles in mind", even DOS version of Duke plays better. That weapon wheel especially makes me sick, because of terrible control I couldn't get past one level. Seriously, do these people code on pads too somehow?

Judging by Steam sales, I guess it was worth it not to pay royalties for using EDuke32. I'd rather buy HTTKC for Android if it wasn't killed and I don't like mobile gaming, I had many thoughts about it during playthrough.

Spoiler

Forgot about music which is great. I wish there was lossless version of the whole OST, I love to play Duke with headphones because of music (sometimes it's just too silent which is why I liked Total Meltdown OST more) and that would be nice to use Lee's WT version as music pack in good quality.

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 15 October 2016 - 12:39 AM

Lunick

#1892 Posted 15 October 2016 - 12:53 AM

The size of the ogg files are so large that they should have used lossless files in the first place.

Sledgehammer

Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#1893 Posted 15 October 2016 - 12:56 AM

Yeah, that's what bothers me especially. But since it's Gearbox, I guess it's normal. Hopefully, Lee release the OST.

MetHy

#1894 Posted 15 October 2016 - 01:18 AM

I wasn't going to pick on this, and this is more an informational post than anything, but since some people seem to care, here are translations/explanations of the French related art in map Tour De Nukem by a French person.

Most of them should be a given to anyone who isn't French I'm sure, but there are a couple ones which may require explaining and I'll point out grammar and spelling mistakes.

Spoiler

This post has been edited by MetHy: 15 October 2016 - 02:11 AM

Malgon

#1895 Posted 15 October 2016 - 01:25 AM

Just saw this voice comparison between the 2 versions and thought it was worth sharing.

Danukem

Duke Plus Developer

#1896 Posted 15 October 2016 - 01:37 AM

MetHy, on 15 October 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

I haven't played it yet but that's still interesting. Again, it shows a lack of care -- they could easily have found one French-speaking person to consult about the signs.

MetHy, on 15 October 2016 - 01:18 AM, said:

Doesn't look very much like a French street sign to me but whatever. French street names often refers to famous people names but it doesn't seem to be the case here. I think it's just some "Frenglish", nothing to get here.

It's just the English expression "rue the day" with "la" thrown in there.

Micky C

Honored Donor

#1897 Posted 15 October 2016 - 01:50 AM

PsychoGoatee, on 14 October 2016 - 11:28 PM, said:

To be fair, some people on here said some ridiculous things about him in particular.

I think the 3 biggest things that people are complaining about (and rightfully so) are:
1. The lazy final boss, where simply making the cycloid try to move within a certain distance of the player would solve the problem.
2. The lazy conversion of the sounds, resulting in a poor quality muffled attribute.
3. Not including the 3 expansions, making the package feel much less complete than Megaton, and therefore notably less value for money, especially considering it's double the price. As a bonus complaint, with the replacement of Megaton with WT, it's impossible to obtain the expansions legally (at least easily and at a reasonable price). More likely than not, this is due to laziness of not wanting to add lights to the expansions' maps, and add normals to the textures.

The word "lazy" is a common theme among these points. You'd think that at the very least, the first two points would be trivial to fix.

MetHy

#1898 Posted 15 October 2016 - 01:55 AM

So, as mentionned in https://forums.duke4...post__p__262810 and as mentionned in the dev commentary, Levelord cut some of the connections in between the two floors in map Prima Arena.

These cut rooms were left in the map files, with effects still in, but also supplies items and more importantly enemies (a DOZEN of them!) meaning you couldn't get 100% kills.

I have reconnected the cut rooms and uploaded the map on the workshop. Credits go to Levelord:

http://steamcommunit...s/?id=781120926

Trooper Dan, on 15 October 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

It's just the English expression "rue the day" with "la" thrown in there.

Ah thanks, I'll edit it and add it. I didn't know this expression.

This post has been edited by MetHy: 15 October 2016 - 01:55 AM

Lunick

#1899 Posted 15 October 2016 - 01:58 AM

Randy stop

Fox

Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#1900 Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:14 AM

We are paying for new content. But the reviews from the trailer are from the old content.

PikaCommando

#1901 Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:17 AM

Holy shit, are they gonna take down World Tour and make ANOTHER one? I'm not sure if this is preferable to waiting 14 years for a new Duke FPS anymore.

Also, they should have at least code in the DNF Cycloid's Engine Dash move for this new final boss. Shouldn't be too hard since it'd basically be like a grounded Sentry Drone.

Doom64hunter

#1902 Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:20 AM

Oh yay, another rerelease? What will it cost this time, 40$?

Micky C

Honored Donor

#1903 Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:26 AM

You can complain about polymer all you want, but the "tech" has more or less been around for free for several years now. Regardless of why or how much money Gearbox invested in it, the fact remains we'd be paying for something we already have. From a return in investment point of view his business reasoning is flawless. For a supply and demand point of view his business reasoning is seriously out of sync with the community. Randy's problem is that he's completing ignoring the latter point.

The only counter-argument to this I can possibly think of is that the supply is in his favour since it's the only way to buy the game. Unfortunately for him, the game being released half a dozen times already mean there's no demand. Well, no demand other than paying $20 for 8 new levels. Then again there are likely hundreds of maps out there better than the ones in the episode so there goes the demand argument...

Still, Randy implied that Gearbox will be releasing the expansions in the future. How's that going to work? He's clearly stated that WT is not intended to be a compilation and therefore the expansions won't be added. But surely there's no way in hell that people are going to pay for yet another re-release with the expansions. The only thing I can think of would be if they released some other stuff like Duke64, Plug n Prey, and possibly even the other console games like Zero Hour and Time to Kill, but then they'd be treading into HTTK territory which makes me feel sad for Voidpoint.

Edit: Holy crap, how long was I writing this post?

This post has been edited by Micky C: 15 October 2016 - 02:26 AM

MetHy

#1904 Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:27 AM

They probably realized HTTK was a great idea and decided to steal that, too, from TerminX.

I know TX will downvote this I'm a fucking rebel yeeeaaahhh!

Edit:
Guys, go play Prima Arena Uncut. The map is a lot better like this. I can't believe Levelord cut out some of the connections between rooms in the map only to catter to his modern gamer crybabies of betatesters because they'd get lost.
The connection between rooms is part of the essence of DN3D, especially for DM, which is what this map was primarly designed for. No wonder the majority of the maps in the episode are so streamlined and linear, if they wanted to catter to modern FPS audiance.

If you ask me the map is actually LESS confusing with the cut rooms back in. The elevators that were cut, as well as the path going down, make it very clear which floor is below and which is above; while without the cut rooms, if you base yourself on the connections the underwater section makes, the layout makes no sense: if you look at the underwater exits, there are two which are on the same height level, but one of them leads to the upper floor, and another one to the lower floor. Then, there is even an underwater exit that's at a higher height level as the ones leading above ground but which lead to the underground floor!

This post has been edited by MetHy: 15 October 2016 - 02:34 AM

Wolf

#1905 Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:33 AM

Hey guys, I did a thing.

It's an album of comparisons of how the two renderers do their thing. First images of a scene are from World Tour, the second are from Polymer.

edit: The navigation buttons are at the top right!

Things I've noticed:

WT is much darker. (Closer to original shading?)
Some faint lights are FANTASTICALLY used in WT to create an indirect lighting effect, which is right up my alley, but...
On the other hand, polymer can't achieve the same effects since it always creates the shine to go along with the light, as well. [Comparisons: One and Two]
Something's buggy about the Death Row cell door lights. The lights get cut off at one edge of the sectors that light up when the doors open. [Look at the closed doors.]
Polymer's lights are stuck where they're created, it seems, while WT's lights are objects that can be moved. For example, the strip club, the lights come down with the dancers, but in Polymer they didn't.

This post has been edited by Wolf: 15 October 2016 - 03:32 AM

Fox

Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#1906 Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:36 AM

Micky C, on 15 October 2016 - 02:26 AM, said:

The only thing I can think of would be if they released some other stuff like Duke64, Plug n Prey, and possibly even the other console games like Zero Hour and Time to Kill

With emulators around, how is there a demand for these? Only if they completely rewrite them in a modern port, but since World Tour was built over the DOS version, I don't think so.

This post has been edited by Fox: 15 October 2016 - 02:36 AM

Micky C

Honored Donor

#1907 Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:38 AM

Wolf, on 15 October 2016 - 02:33 AM, said:

WT adheres to the Duke3D palette. [Example.]

You realize that polymer has had an artmapping feature which basically makes it use the Duke 3D palette for shading? From what I can gather, it doesn't look like it's enabled in that screenshot. I'm not sure if it's on by default or not.

Besides, polymer isn't the future of eduke32, polynerNG is. Hopefully icecoldduke will be able to finish it in a year or two and we'll have a renderer that runs faster than WT's, and looks way better due to the addition of light shadows and all other kinds of fancy effects.

Edit @Fox:
From what I understand, there's still difficulty in buying the N64 and PS version of the Duke games for you to run in an emulator in the first place. Same deal for the Duke spinoffs. I'm not forgetting your mods though which throw a spanner in the works for the Duke 3D content.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 15 October 2016 - 02:40 AM

Wolf

#1908 Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:47 AM

Micky C, on 15 October 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

You realize that polymer has had an artmapping feature which basically makes it use the Duke 3D palette for shading?

Oh! That makes sense then!

To run Hendricks' package with normalmaps you gotta turn artmapping off.

This post has been edited by Wolf: 15 October 2016 - 02:48 AM

NightFright

The Truth is in here

#1909 Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:51 AM

Sledgehammer, on 15 October 2016 - 12:56 AM, said:

[...] Hopefully, Lee releases the OST.

This. I would like to recompress the original music files so that the whole pack isn't bigger than 120-150 MB. For pure listening in a music player, having max quality is fine. Ingame, you can live with stronger compressions. I doubt you would notice the difference.

Anyway, recompression means losing the looping points...

This post has been edited by NightFright: 15 October 2016 - 02:59 AM

TheZombieKiller

#1910 Posted 15 October 2016 - 02:52 AM

Fox, on 15 October 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

With emulators around, how is there a demand for these? Only if they completely rewrite them in a modern port, but since World Tour was built over the DOS version, I don't think so.

I'd take a native PC version over an emulated version any day, the state of N64 emulators is... less than desirable in my experience.

Tea Monster

Polymancer

#1911 Posted 15 October 2016 - 03:30 AM

How do you add your own textures and normal maps? Is it possible?

necroslut

#1912 Posted 15 October 2016 - 03:57 AM

Micky C, on 15 October 2016 - 02:26 AM, said:

Still, Randy implied that Gearbox will be releasing the expansions in the future. How's that going to work? He's clearly stated that WT is not intended to be a compilation and therefore the expansions won't be added. But surely there's no way in hell that people are going to pay for yet another re-release with the expansions. The only thing I can think of would be if they released some other stuff like Duke64, Plug n Prey, and possibly even the other console games like Zero Hour and Time to Kill, but then they'd be treading into HTTK territory which makes me feel sad for Voidpoint.

Not that I'm in the know or anything, but he's hinted at wanting to do the "definitive edition" in collaboration with Voidpoint (whatever that would mean, I don't know): http://twitter.com/D...293585551003648

Fox, on 15 October 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

With emulators around, how is there a demand for these? Only if they completely rewrite them in a modern port, but since World Tour was built over the DOS version, I don't think so.

The console versions both lack good controls and options, and in Total Meltdowns case also performance. I haven't been able to make it play nicely in an emulator, at least.

Wolf

#1913 Posted 15 October 2016 - 04:06 AM

necroslut, on 15 October 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

[...] he's hinted at wanting to do the "definitive edition" in collaboration with Voidpoint (whatever that would mean, I don't know): http://twitter.com/D...293585551003648

That gives me a lot of hope.

MetHy

#1914 Posted 15 October 2016 - 04:08 AM

Can anyone give explanations about the new easter eggs and Duke quotes?

Honestly there are many I don't get here. Like the line in the Egypt level when you blow up cracks in the wall.

HMNuke93

#1915 Posted 15 October 2016 - 04:14 AM

SLOWLY working on at least a sprite replacement for the final boss. I call him "The Immolator". If someone has a better name, let me know it

This post has been edited by HMNuke93: 15 October 2016 - 04:17 AM

Micky C

Honored Donor

#1916 Posted 15 October 2016 - 04:14 AM

necroslut, on 15 October 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

The use of similar language does imply something's going on. Let's hope something good comes out of it.

xMobilemux

#1917 Posted 15 October 2016 - 04:22 AM

HMNuke93, on 15 October 2016 - 04:14 AM, said:

SLOWLY working on at least a sprite replacement for the final boss. I call him "The Immolator". If someone has a better name, let me know it

Looking good!

MetHy

#1918 Posted 15 October 2016 - 04:49 AM

It does look good but to me he looks more like he'd belong in Quake 2 rather than Duke.

Dr_Proton

#1919 Posted 15 October 2016 - 05:18 AM

HMNuke93, on 15 October 2016 - 04:14 AM, said:

SLOWLY working on at least a sprite replacement for the final boss. I call him "The Immolator". If someone has a better name, let me know it

Isn't that Zilla from Shadow Warrior ?

NightFright

The Truth is in here

#1920 Posted 15 October 2016 - 05:31 AM

It's amazing how the community comes up with better sprites within a couple of days while the Gearbox guys had months and didn't succeed. Sure, they added tons of new textures and decoration sprites, but at least the Incinerator and the boss (which doesn't even have a name) are quite disappointing.

This post has been edited by NightFright: 15 October 2016 - 05:32 AM