Duke4.net Forums: Duke Nukem For3ver Mini-mod - Duke4.net Forums

What I have here is my first ever mini-mod for Duke Nukem 3D Megaton Edition and Eduke32. I'm a little new to the modding area, but hey, for a first mod, I kinda gotta pat myself on the back haha! This mod includes weapon sounds and one-liners from Duke Nukem Forever and in no way am I stealing these sounds. I have yet to learn how to make custom Duke art, so if anyone is willing to help on that aspect, be my guest! Here is the link to both the Steam Workshop version of Duke Nukem For3ver and Eduke32.

Steam Workshop
http://steamcommunit...s/?id=304802807

Eduke32 Edition:
https://www.mediafir...za4gfsb9809b5ia

Some textures may bug out like crazy in the Megaton version, but Eduke32 seems to play smoothly aside from the Jumbotron glitching out a little bit, but don't worry. I don't think some little graphical glitches are going to stop you from kicking some serious alien ass! Enjoy everyone!

CLICK HERE FOR OFFICIAL DUKE NUKEM FOR3VER GAMEPLAY

You should add some screenshots as well. This map feels something that could have been released along with DNF 2013 DLC.

edit

Awesome map! Took me about 12 minutes. I like all sounds and the level design. I had a really big mess and I enjoyed it!

I took some screenshots:

Just played it and I really wasn't found of it. When I was in the first big room (2nd screenshot from the post above) I was already tired of the map; tired of the music (it gets old very fast), tired of all the new sounds (the guns sound like they're made of plastic and the jetpack sound like a micro-hoover; and most importantly I was tired of hearing a duke quote every 5 seconds especially when half of them don't fit with what's going on), and tired of the gameplay. HUNDREDS of enemies semi-randomly placed into big rooms gets old very fast, and at the beginning of the map when you only have a pistol with almost no ammo and have to rely on enemy drops to get weapons while there are hundreds of them shooting at you is very tedious; not to mention that you'll get shot at and wake up even more of them if you try to wander further into the map in the hope to find weapons or health.

Visually the map is alright; though I can't put my finger on it but there is something about most of what I saw that makes me feel like I've seen it before except this time it doesn't look as solid...
Even though the map has some shading (light+shadows mainly, though a few of the shadows look weird) a very good part of the map looks like it's not really shaded, must be that fullbright feel and a lack of wallshading.

Anyway that's just my two cents. I guess it can sound harsh but don't take it personal and don't let me take you down. I hope I don't sound like some asshole, I just like to say what I think about maps I play and that should never be a problem.

Artem Nevinchany, on 25 August 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Thanks a lot Artem and FistMarine! Glad you two enjoyed it. Thanks also for uploading some screenshots for me also Artem. That was a huge favor XD.

MetHy, on 25 August 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Wow... You are the only person to slander this map so hard... I hate to be rude here, but I don't know if it's your ego, or your years of playing millions of usermaps that automatically turns my map into a copy/paste adventure. I had inspiration, but in NO WAY did I take anything from the DNF 2013 mod into my mod. I understand you didn't like it, but compare yourself to the 100s of people that had nothing but good things to say. Plus, it's my first ever mod. You're expecting a full blown mod on my first attempt and that doesn't seem fair. I just don't know what to say to this... It just seems extremely blunt and closed minded. Maybe I haven't been mapping for years, maybe I haven't been modding for years, maybe I haven't played Duke consistently for years, but I will stand by this map saying it's pretty damn good for a first mod. I appreciate your advice, but next time, let's not raise our expectations really high.

MetHy, on 25 August 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

As for me, I liked that! It was a task to survive. When I was playing I said to myself : " Artem, you are a real Duker, you can't die and you must kick alien's asses!".

StarCraftZergling, on 25 August 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Just calm down. Haven't played it yet, but from what MetHy wrote I assume that you fell into a few almost inevitable traps for new mappers. However proud you are of your work, not everyone will jump up and down and praise it. That's natural, especially in a small and experienced community like this one. When you feel pissed by someone's criticism it would be wise to wait more than ten minutes to post a reply. Better read it again once or twice and rethink the contents more than the tone - remember that most of us aren't native speakers. Better take criticism without too much discussion, otherwise the advanced guys will just stop to help you improve yourself.

LeoD, on 25 August 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

Well look, I said I appreciate his advice, but I'm not a new mapper. I have been making quite a few maps on the workshop, and quite a few of them were actually good. I'm not being narcissistic or egotistical but my maps ain't as bad as some would claim. I understand this community is small, but there are many reasons to that, don't you think? Maybe it could be that modern shooters are shadowing Duke or maybe it's that the little community here has been keeping people away. The Duke Hard mod and DNF 2013 mods were great, and they kept the community solid, but it didn't recruit anyone new to the game. Plus, a lot of players scare others away from the game. I'm not saying MetHy is scaring people nor you, but the community needs to stop looking at all of the negative things of a map and just see the map/mod for what it is. It just seemed like MetHy had NOTHING good to say about the map and that's why I defended it. I mean, if he said "It's lacking in areas but over it was a nice experience" or something like that, then I would have let it go. Even though he claimed to not want to sound like a douche, that still hits me hard man. That's like, spending a lot of time on a sculpture just to have someone piss on it. I spent a little over a month on this mod/map and I honestly am proud. I'm not coming here with a map that has 2 rooms with unsettling textures and a babe in the middle and saying that it's god's work. I'm coming here with a map that I but a lot of time and effort into, only for it to be slandered. I like to state both sides of a story, not stay negative. If I see a map that sucks ass, I will at least say it was a different experience, but I won't completely come out and say YOUR MAP IS SHIT, GO HANG YOURSELF. I know MetHy didn't mean for it to sound like that but it did man. I'm just saying, I welcome criticism, but not slandering. Especially when I put in over a month on 1 map

While I can certainly understand your sentiments, and though I don't share MetHy's experience (I plan to play the map tomorrow with someone) I also can't agree with your point of view either on a couple points. MetHy doesn't have to say "it has flaws, but overall it was okay." If he didn't like it, he didn't like it, and that's his prerogative. Not everybody is going to give you glowing praise, believe me. Some people will outright shut you down if their experiences are negative. That's just the name of the game when you put yourself or something you've worked on, out there.

Now, I personally don't agree with MetHy's words, but that doesn't invalidate them. He doesn't need to be political about this. It's a map, and he didn't enjoy it. It could simply be that the style of the map is not to his liking. That's fine. What really matter is what you take away from his post, and other critical posts, and how you decide to use the information gleaned from them. Judging strictly by the images and the video, I see a lot of work (and time) went into the map. It's got some nifty features. I like the nice touch of having the vending machines plopping out small health. That's really clever, same for the email gag. Very cool.

I can also see the point about having biggish rooms crammed with monsters. However, that's not to say it's an invalid way to design a map. Again It may just not be to everyone's liking. Some people enjoy "horde" maps, some people don't. You can't please everyone, and you shouldn't try. If you feel satisfied with what you've done, then that is all that should matter in the end.

StarCraftZergling, on 25 August 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Yet, you claim he is the only one to slander the map "next to the 100s of people that had nothing but good to say". Since it is your first mod, you shouldn't exactly be expecting high praise. Nor should you shun those who are honest in their opinions, even if they aren't what you'd like them to be. Rather, you should accept MetHy's response as constructive criticism for your future projects. It will make you a better mapper and modder.


"Do not correct a scoffer, lest he hate you; Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you."

Well It didn't sound as slandering for me, you need to get acostumed to people criticizing your work, whatever area you work in. I could agree with MetHy in some extent, while he maybe sound a bit rude on other points, anyway he isn't lying. He just shared his opinion, and if didn't like the map that should be ok for you. Not everyone needs to like what you do (even if you put a high amount of work on it) The map has its shortcomings, it does lack weapons at the beginning and have excessive amount of enemies in some places and not everyone likes (including me) to run away from a horde of monsters looking for guard till getting weapons, in fact I died a few times. The architecture is cool, I didn't find it any boring, it could use some more work and trimming though, specially in the stadium area. It does look like other maps at some point, anywya I wouldn't call this map unnoriginal nor a bad map.

I will make this comment to clear things up. MetHy, I respect your criticism and I understand that you weren't fond of my map/mod. Thank you for being honest. The only thing I want to say though is that I'm sure you would feel the same way if I came in and said your maps were trash and I found them extremely boring. I'm sure you would defend them too, especially if you put effort into them like I did. I'm not trying to cause a war on the thread, so I'm gonna say truce, and let both of us have our own opinions Again, thanks for being honest and posts like these only inspire me to work harder! (Not trying to steal that from DavoX lol, because I did see him say that in Megaton).

Why not to solve mistakes and release new version?

MetHy, on 25 August 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

That's exactly why I didn't like the map by Dukebot in Duke Hard episode.

Artem Nevinchany, on 25 August 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Just don't make too many versions, a solid update would be ok. Don't forget to get at least 2 betatesters before release anything with your next project.

Artem Nevinchany, on 25 August 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Because if every mapper did that we'd have new versions upon versions of old maps getting re-released every time a mapper learns something new.

I think the best thing for him would be to move on. Create something new.

Yay Ponies, on 26 August 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

So we'd get MORE good maps!

Yay Ponies, on 26 August 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

So he'd also scrap the GOOD parts of that map, which would lead his next production to feel forced, as opposed to his previous map which was a product of a spontaneous inspiration.

I can see Methy's point of view about the constant Duke quotes getting a bit old, and about the non-stop horde of monsters. I'll admit I only skimmed through the video, but IMO large hordes of enemies can get pretty repetitive after a while, and that challenge should be created by integrating the combat with the layout to create unique and varied battles. Some hordes are ok, but you need to space it out with calmer moments. The map overall does seem pretty solid. The detail, architecture and layout is vastly superior to all the previous maps I've seen of yours on Workshop, although there's an ever-so-slight reliance on large sprites placed on walls in some areas (not as bad as Duke City though ). Perhaps the adjacent walls could use some shade offsets as well. Yet another opportunity to show off Fox's shading script?

I didn't think Methy's comments were harsh at all. I read it to simply be "this map is not my cup of tea, oh and if you're going to make another map here's a bit of friendly advice on one or two things to improve". I've tried playing some very good maps by some very good mappers, which I disliked to the point of not finishing them. It's nothing personal.
On the topic of "it's my first mod" as a defense, a lot of his criticism was directed at the map itself rather than the modding quality, except of course for the duketalk frequency which I presume you set yourself manually in the code and is pretty independant of modding skill.

Finally I must point out the "100's of people on megaton liked it" bit. See, the thing is, the majority of Megaton users are like fast food addicts. They want their burgers and chips and they want them now. The food tastes great of course and they can't stop eating (the burgers and chips are original megaton maps btw). Now, there's nothing wrong with chips and burgers, however there are people who want a 3 course meal at a fancy restaurant. This is eduke32 and most maps made over the last 5 years or so, featuring great map aspects like tension, atmosphere, pacing; all part of the delicious gravy over your juicy steak. I know it probably sounds a bit harsh but I find this metaphor accurate.

I don't know whether it's that megaton players are more accustomed to modern gameplay styles which just have non-stop action, or if it's because they missed a lot of really good maps over the years and hence when they found megaton the user map bar was set really low (even commando nukem thought the vending machine health thing was clever, when it's actually been done many times before), but the fact is they seem to like pretty much everything.

I used to be a bit like that myself, but my preferences changed over time. For example the first time I played the AMC TC (yes I'm mentioning it again; shoot me. I like the TC!) I hated it! It felt like ages before you'd even come across the first enemy in some levels, let alone get into the proper action. But then I began to appreciate the build-up, as well as soak up the atmosphere in the mean time, and appreciate things like how the sound design might create an eerie mood. Not to mention other mapping subtleties too numerous to list. It was like a higher level of mapping. I'm sure there are other examples, the Red series maybe (still need to get around to playing that...)

But I'm trying to say that there are different people with different preferences out there. It's pretty hard to cover up my own preference, but perhaps that's why we're over here and they're over there. Still, there's room for both.

This map proves why DNF will never be as popular as the good ol' Duke Nukem 3D. The Duketalk here (like in DNF) is mostly retarded or simply unfunny, the music is pretty annoying too, I lowered the volume pretty fast, and so the other new weapon sounds are not that special. This is not your fault, SCZergling, it's the fault of the creators of DNF. This map will be much better with keeping the original spirit instead.

I also have to agree with Methy about the gameplay, as I didn't really warm to it as well. It's pretty much the straightforward and mindless version of the cinema level of the Duke Hard episode, while that one has a point,and you feel the progression, this time it's just an Assault Trooper bonanza before the good ol' boring Emperor enters the scene exactly where (and when) you expect him.

However, I like the leveldesign, as it seems you are a competent mapper and that's more than just welcome. Just if you want to accept my advice, forget all the DNF bullshit, and create your own stuff with what it's given to Duke 3D.

Ok, I am all for killing lots of bad guys but the amount of liz troopers placed around the map should be reserved for COOP.
There is just to many in SP imo. (especially when you only got the pistol to use)

Watched the map in Mapster, and you put enemies into or next to ALL chairs, toilets, monitors, girls, game machines etc. It looks very good in Mapster, but plays horrible ingame. Those guys aren't just stand or sit there, and playing/watching/boxing/cheering/pissing. They stand up and fight you in a chaotic manner.

Guys, you are so strict. I remember my first map and it was a real bullshit. Try to remember your first maps/mods

P.S. I don't say it to all. May be somebody did a fantastic stuff in the beginning.

This guy has made several maps Artem. Plus they're not so much talking about the quality as they are design decisions.

If you be calm with an angry person he will also become calm.

I don't protect anybody.

Yay Ponies, on 26 August 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

Oops, didn't mean to vote up or down. I've stated elsewhere that I appreciate map updates which increase replay value, fix bugs, or improve compatibility to newer EDuke32 versions.

Artem Nevinchany, on 26 August 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

No body is being angry with him.
Only a couple of people are pointing out some things they didn't like with the map and he has taken it the wrong way because he is obviously only used to receiving praise.

Artem Nevinchany, on 26 August 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

We're strict, because thae map could be so much better with so little addittions (or so little removals to be more accurate) and that's more worthy of a discusssion than the case of a map which sucks from start to finish, and all you can say it sucks from start to finish, which you won't do.

Micky C, on 26 August 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

What.

I don't know how you learned to map so well without having played those.

You just have to take it hehehe if you like to map then you like to map what else will matter not all will be pleased with the work in fact the "perfect" map doesn't exist still to this day correct me if i'm wrong yo. But there is no such thing because not everybody likes the same style