Duke4.net Forums: Ugh, it just dawned on me how bad the main campaign is. - Duke4.net Forums

Mikko_Sandt, on 29 October 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Indeed. Going throught the vents, being shrinked etc. I don't understand this general hatred for "no shooting" parts in DNF.

Luther Blissett, on 29 October 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

I like it a lot too

Luther Blissett, on 29 October 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

Why? Because everyone was doing so? I'm happy for you being able to enjoy your long awaited game, but I guess most people (including me) couldn't enjoy it that much because we were expecting a game that would better than Duke 3D in every way but ended up being worse/completely different then the original. Huge expectations that weren't met plus a mediocre game equals huge hate, even if the game is not that bad.

Burnett, on 29 October 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

For the same reason people are complaining that the new Tomb Raider (and also Splinter Cell) has too much action: it's not what it is supposed to be.
DNF tried to be HL2. The problem is, Half-Life has a decent story to keep the player interested, DNF on the other hand...

LkMax, on 31 October 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

Amen. Every Tomb Raider from Legend and onwards is a sacrilege to the series. I know most of us complain about Duke Nukem Forever being too linear, but in a game series like Tomb Raider that pivots around non-linearity and exploration, locking the player into a tight, single-path action game is rather disrespectful to the original franchise to say the least. Unfortunately, it seems that I am in the minority with that opinion.

LkMax, on 31 October 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

But Duke3d also had non-shooting parts. Especially when you needed to find something once you've pretty much cleared other rooms. I liked that in Duke3d and surely wasn't against in DNF. Of course it was different, but whatever since Duke3d wasn't just a shootfest either.

Achenar, on 31 October 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

Did you try Underworld? It had better exploration and less action. I liked it a lot.

Burnett, on 31 October 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

Tried the demo. It was definitely better but not enough to prompt me to buy the game.

LkMax, on 31 October 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

Bullshit, Half-Lifes story is trash. It's just told a bit more effectively than we're used to in games. Also, Half-Life was very heavily inspired by Duke.

A good told story is a good story
Edit: Leod i hit the wrong button. Was meant for upvote xD

necroslut, on 31 October 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

If Half-Life's story is trash and heavily inspired by Duke, that would in turn make Duke's story trash. Just making sure that's what you're saying.

Burnett, on 31 October 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

Yes I know, games like Serious Sam and Painkiller are what I consider 'shootfests', Duke Nukem isn't and I like it that way, but it handled the action/puzzle balance better while DNF feels like having too much of the latter.
Equilibrium is key.

necroslut, on 31 October 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

HL hava nothing to do with Duke Nukem. Why would you think so? Because of aliens? In HL there's a whole thing involving parallel dimensions, alien conflicts and a "resonance cascade" in a secret lab of the US Government followed by an alien colonization while in DN3D there's just bad aliens invading Earth to rape our womans and reproduce. Yeah, pretty identical stories.

necroslut, on 31 October 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

A clue....no. On both statements. Just because that's what Gearbox said doesn't mean it's true. If HL was inspired by Duke at all, they took what was good and went miles with it.

Also, I prefer linear gameplay to sandbox. I don't really understand the hate that HL gets for being linear. Nothing wrong with linear.

I love the part where Necroslut posts, people disagree, and he doesn't even bother to reply.

Captain Awesome, on 15 December 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Better to say nothing and have people think you a fool than to open your mouth and leave people without any doubt.

I wasn't talking about HL's story with the connection part... But if you can't see how the gameplay and structure of HL is inspired by Duke 3D, well...

necroslut, on 15 December 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

That's the spirit soldier! Though you should have read my above post. At least you are trying now, that's a start.

Ronan, on 15 December 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

It's not as if I care about my Duke4 reputation... If you can't see how Half-Life was influenced by Duke 3D in it's structure and design you're idiots, or you just don't understand game design. They even "took" weapons straight from Duke for god's sake...

necroslut, on 20 December 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Yeah, the shotgun was an obvious Duke ripoff!

Edit: I don't know why MusicallyInspired decided to upvote this particular post three years after I made it, but whatever floats your boat my good sir.

necroslut, on 20 December 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Look, I will give you the trip mine but apart from that, the rest of the weapons in Half-Life are either generic or their own creations. Sure Duke 3D was an evolution of the fps game but I don't see how Half-Life was inspired by Duke 3D level design or structure, even though Half-Life was itself another evolution in terms of story telling and graphics, in many ways it was a step backward with it's linear level design.

Ronan, on 21 December 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

The remote bomb I would also say is pretty "inspired". But I don't want to get into a debate on this subject, I just stated my view and that's it. I barely check these forums anyway.

necroslut, on 22 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

Except to downvote people who disagree with you.

Achenar, on 22 December 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

You think I care enough about that to read the forums just to downvote? I downvote when I come across posts I find stupid.

Both HL1 and DN3D gave us great advancments in FPS gaming. Probebly HL1 did take some insperation from DN3D, but that's a good thing. Usually every masterpiece gets insperation from an earlier masterpiece.

And didn't the HL creators mention that DN3D is one source for inspiration?

Yes, they did.

fuegerstef, on 27 December 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

Wasn't there even a bunch of Duke3D developers working for Valve on Halflife?

I could see some of the weapon's inspiration like the tripmines, or hell even the satchels function the same way as pipebombs pretty much (just bigger) but there's nothing wrong with having more fun weapons. In fact one of my gripes with HL2 was that they took a lot of that stuff out and just kept the generic role-fulfilling weapons in save for some exceptions (You can guess which).

Even if HL was at all inspired by duke in gameplay, all the stuff it did it does well. DNF, on the other hand, wasn't nearly as solid. With the exception of the shotgun, the shooting mechanics in DNF were pretty bad, and add on top of that the strange player movement, it makes it a very sour experience.

HL didn't just work "BECUZ PUZZLES" and action, just like Duke3D didn't work because it had both. With HL, it's how the puzzles offer you respite from the action, and how the action that you are taking a break from was SATISFYING.

It's harder to enjoy having to figure out a puzzle when the shooting mechanics - which is the main aspect of an FPS game - in DNF were flat and rather boring. Add on top of that the sequences that were almost blatantly identical to things in HL2 instead of just being inspired by it, it didn't exactly help the game.

That being said, the miniature part of Duke Burger in DNF was actually really good. That was the one part of the game that I didn't mind the mediocre mechanics because it was a good enough level that it made those things acceptable. (It actually made me think the game was gonna get a lot better too, unfortunately that didn't pan out) It's a shame the game didn't have more interesting levels like that. Also, it's one of the few levels that didn't have stupid invisible walls and the whole "HOLD THE PLAYER'S HAND" mentality, while still being linear.

Your right, HL2's weapons were pretty good, but not as fun as HL1's arsanal. When you say "HL2 kept the generic role weapons in save a few (you can guess which one's)"...I assume you were talking about the Gravity gun, and mabye the Pulse Rifles seconday "orb" which were creative.

The only HL2 organic weapon was the "Bug Bait" which was a cool concept, but squeezing the bait to make them come to you...well...they were coming anyway for the most part. When an enemy appears you dont really need to throw the bug bait on them...most of the time the Antlions will attack anyway. However, I guess if there are several enemies you can choose the one to be attacked with the Bug Bait. And when you throw the bait on an enemy it does put them out of action while they try to brush off the phermones. It was very creative I must say.

But DNF I didnt see much in the way of inspiring weapons. In fact one of the old great weapons, the Shrinker, was ruined because you had to press E to step on your shrunken foe which is ridiculous.

Blue Lightning, on 28 December 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

More importantly, in Duke3D the shrinker made the enemies completely inert while shrunk. They were defenseless. In DNF, I actually found myself near-death a couple times while facing shrunken pig cops. WTF.

DNF's weapons really just made me go "what were they thinking?"

I mean seriously, the alien weapons were so poorly visually designed there was almost nothing distinctive about them, about the only 3 weapons that were enjoyable to use in the entire game were the devastator, the shotgun, and that enforcer gun.

The rocket launcher, one of my favorite Duke3D weapons, felt completely useless. Bad sounds, poor damage.

A lot of the poor level design decisions could have been somewhat ignored if the shooting was actually fun.

Even though the shotty was ok, the animation and kickback looked a lot better in the 2001 version

Bloodshot, on 29 December 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

I approve of this message!

As for the shotgun itself, it becomes completely useless at anything but the shortest distance. I remember in the campaign, a pigcop came through the door in the casino, only 10-15 metres away and started shooting at me, but no damage! It was like he was armed with an air gun I don't mind the shotgun dealing extra damage at close range, that could be a good feature, but dealing no damage at medium-long range is just frustrating, especially with the two weapon limit.

Duke Nukem Forever is an interesting beast of a game.
When I played it, I wasn't expecting a magnum opus. I was just expecting a nostalgic shooter that helped me relive the glory days of all the great games of Duke's era, including of course Duke Nukem 3D.
Now, you can call me ignorant or that I had lived under a rock for twelve years prior to Duke Nukem Forever's release, but I actually never sought any news for the game. I heard it in passing, but never really took any time to research it, or see the development progress.
It might not have been the smartest thing that I've done, but the reason I bought the game was because I saw it on a GameStop shelf and said to myself, "Huh... cool," and then bought with no other knowledge of the game than what I read on the back of the box and my previous experience with Duke Nukem games.

I installed the game, then starting playing. I hadn't played a classic shooter in the longest time, so I was probably expecting Duke Nukem 3D with better graphics.
Alas, that wasn't what I got, and my feeling waned once I was past the two hour mark.

Unlike Duke Nukem 3D, Rise of the Triad, Unreal, or even Doom, the movement is really clunky. It felt slow. Halo surprisingly feels faster paced. I was mostly just sad that Duke couldn't run at break-neck speeds without fatiguing, or jump nearly two stories high. Without the classic movement controls, it limits the player to a more cover based strategy.
No more carefully and quickly maneuvering around enemies.

What also doesn't help is the new regenerating health mechanic, or Ego.
I felt this system made little sense. I understand that doing over-the-top or cool things allows your Ego to grow permanently, giving you a health boost, but I personally though it would work better with the original game's health system. Instead of regenerating health, bring back first aid kits, and medicine. Keep the Ego Boost idea, however. Have it raise your health bar, but I still take damage until I manually heal myself.
But with it, the player has to wait behind cover to heal, which makes most gun fights very boring.

Speaking of gun fights... the weapons are all useless.
The shotgun is terrible at range. Yes, I know it's a shotgun, but this is Duke Nukem! Not only does it have terrible range, but it's slow too. The Ripper, or as it was known, the Machine Gun Cannon, runs out of ammo faster than any gun in the whole game. The pistol is useful at times, but it doesn't have anything to make it unique. Explosive weapons like rocket launchers are not as ridiculously unrealistic as they were in Duke Nukem 3D... which is a bad thing. Without that surreality of the incredibly overpowered rocket launcher, it makes the game less fun. Then there are the alien weapons which are far more useful than any other gun in the game.
The only new weapon is the Railgun, which is actually pretty cool, being one of the first range weapons in a Duke game.

Then there is the linear, on the rails level design. Most of it consists of pointless busy work meant to pad the game out for another twenty hours. For example, the scenes where the player has to get more gas for their monster truck is so incredibly tedious. It breaks the momentum and thrill of the driving sequences.
The game also has no interesting locales or areas. It's all very bland and forgettable, save a few moments.
This game needed bigger maps! Allow the player to fully embrace his surroundings, and fill it with secrets and tough challenges. Make the world interactive and interesting!
It doesn't need the key card hunts of the previous titles, but do something!

That all makes it sound pretty terrible, right? It does. It's a very mediocre title.
But damn it... it's a guilty pleasure.
Hear me out, all the problems I listed are still legitimate. It is severely flawed, but it's still got some charm.

The game has some great interactivity, even if it is seen during the linear course. I literally spent hours in Duke's underground lair driving with RC Cars and playing pinball.
The Strip Club is surprisingly open and let's you play some other fun mini-games too.

Also, the driving sequences are great. Even though I would have preferred a motorcycle to drive around in and kill aliens with, The Mighty Foot (surely taking the place of Duke's actual Mighty Foot mechanic that is missing from this game) is a awesome truck to drive in.
It's easily one of the more memorable parts of the game, driving down the dusty Nevada highway with an alien's head under your tire.

Finally, the Ghost Town level was just awesome. I'll admit having quite a bit of fun with that.

Overall, it's disappointing, and had huge potential, but if you can look past the flaws, you'll have a bit of fun.
Hopefully, the series will improve with later entries.
I'll give the Duke Nukem Forever single player experience a slightly positive six out ten.