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Political Shitshooting  "previously: YEAH! WOOHOO! Liberals got the same healthcare pla"

User is offline   ReaperMan 

#271

View PostAchenar, on 06 August 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Like it or not, our interstate highway is here to stay.

Of course the interstate highway is here to stay, but fact is train is still the best way to move very large amounts of goods across the country and high speed rail would be the next step.
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#272

View PostReaperMan, on 06 August 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Of course the interstate highway is here to stay, but fact is train is still the best way to move very large amounts of goods across the country and high speed rail would be the next step.


You would think people would be jumping at the chance to invest in trains again. Maybe maintenance of a high-speed rail system is more expensive than an aircraft fleet, but we might make up for it by having less to be paranoid about. Are they capable of being sabotaged? Sure. But you can't hijack a train, ram it into a building, and get a Michael Bay explosion out of it. You also can't set off an underwear bomb and expect to do much damage. Blowing a hole in a train car doesn't result in everyone getting sucked out the window. How much could we save on security costs if the only planes we had to worry about were inter-continental flights?

This post has been edited by wayskobfssae: 06 August 2012 - 06:44 PM

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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#273

The fatal flaw with highspeed rail is with the current setup no train can go faster than the slowest on the same line. They'd have to replace everything at once or nothing at all for it to ever be considered a financial success. And they also cost more to maintain than what we already have in service. The proposed projects all over America would bankrupt more cities already on the edge. Nobody benefits. If the economy was doing great and manufacturing was more like the post WW2 era it can be done.

Hijacking trains can be just as devastating as hijacking a plane. Find one loaded with nuclear waste and derail it near a city. Remember the Graniteville, South Carolina wreck? 60 tons of chlorine gas resulted in 9 deaths and the evacuation of a town of 5,400 people. Now imagine if that was deliberate what kind of damage can really be done. What about the Madrid train bombings in 2004? 190 dead. The 7/7/2005 subway bombings in London. How did you forget those?

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 06 August 2012 - 07:08 PM

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#274

View PostMad Max RW, on 06 August 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

The fatal flaw with highspeed rail is with the current setup no train can go faster than the slowest on the same line. They'd have to replace everything at once or nothing at all for it to ever be considered a financial success. And they also cost more to maintain than what we already have in service. The proposed projects all over America would bankrupt more cities already on the edge. Nobody benefits. If the economy was doing great and manufacturing was more like the post WW2 era it can be done.

Hijacking trains can be just as devastating as hijacking a plane. Find one loaded with nuclear waste and derail it near a city. Remember the Graniteville, South Carolina wreck? 60 tons of chlorine gas resulted in 9 deaths and the evacuation of a town of 5,400 people. Now imagine if that was deliberate what kind of damage can really be done. What about the Madrid train bombings in 2004? 190 dead.


Yeah, you're probably right about the cost.

As for hijacking trains - keep in mind I was thinking of a hypothetical high-tech replacement for the old rail system. We'd immediately know if there was a problem with the track, and trains can be made to be a lot more stable than what we're using right now. A successful derailment would require sabotaging the track within that narrow window of time when the train can't stop quickly enough after the problem was detected.

As far as expenses go though, with all our advances in technology, I find it very sad how reliant we still are on trucks. The amount of fuel it wastes is unbelievable. And despite the unemployment rate being so high, long-haul trucking is also a job that almost nobody wants. Trucking companies can't fill the positions they want to fill, even with promises of a 6-figure salary.

And you brought up an interesting topic with what you said about the trouble with replacing the rail system with a better one: that we can't upgrade it unless we upgrade ALL of it at once. That same issue applies to a lot of our current problems. So many of the systems we rely on suffer from that limitation (one way or another) and it keeps us in a perpetual state of stagnation. For example, even if we found the ultimate power source; something cheap, renewable, green, easy to harness, and a great energy yield, it could still take us a century or more before it became mainstream. It would be too expensive convert everything to it, and the unemployment that would likely result from oil/coal/natural gas becoming obsolete would be staggering. The lobbyists would keep making up excuses to keep it suppressed, etc. It's all very depressing.

P.S. I know how much you like to point out that I'm stupid, but you can stop adding examples of recent train wrecks to your list. Obviously you didn't immediately remember them until you sat there and pondered. Which you probably wouldn't have done if anyone else but me had made that post. ;)

This post has been edited by wayskobfssae: 06 August 2012 - 07:42 PM

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User is offline   Martin 

#275

View PostMad Max RW, on 05 August 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

So instead of acknowledging FACTS you simply dismiss them. Typical liberal response. You're living in a dream world. A house of cards. And it is all collapsing. Obama and the entire Democratic party will implode on itself because people like you think it's easier to blame somebody else for your failures. Try growing a pair by doing the hard work and taking some responsibility. History is going to look back at this time and laugh at you.


I don't have anything to say with regards to republicans vs liberals (they're both human trash), just wanted to say that I think your Achilles heel has been found - politics. I love your 'dream world/house of cards' comment, haha! So dramatic, Max!
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#276

View PostMartin, on 06 August 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

I don't have anything to say with regards to republicans vs liberals (they're both human trash)


I find it difficult to respect someone who makes that kind of statement. I tend to find myself on the liberal side when it comes to most "social" issues, and the conservative side on most economic issues. Among my friends and loved ones, some are conservative, some are liberal, and some are in between. None of them are human trash.
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User is offline   ReaperMan 

#277

View PostMad Max RW, on 06 August 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

The proposed projects all over America would bankrupt more cities already on the edge. Nobody benefits. If the economy was doing great and manufacturing was more like the post WW2 era it can be done.

I'm not saying do that now, i'm just saying that when the economy gets better that should be one of the things to build. As for right now they should set priority's on what needs to be done.
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User is offline   Martin 

#278

View PostTrooper Dan, on 06 August 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

I find it difficult to respect someone who makes that kind of statement. I tend to find myself on the liberal side when it comes to most "social" issues, and the conservative side on most economic issues. Among my friends and loved ones, some are conservative, some are liberal, and some are in between. None of them are human trash.


I was just being facetious, and probably shouldn't have been. What I should have said is that I find people's political differences highly-amusing, and ordinarily cool and collected people (such as Max) lose their fucking rag when it comes to politics. I'm sure that big long list of 'facts' he posted does actually contain some real facts. Ordinarily, Max wouldn't get caught up in all that. However, when it came to politics, he was more than willing to buy a random fact sheet sponsored by his favoured side of government. Bias, in a person who doesn't usually display bias. Usually sane people losing the plot. Honestly, who cares how many rounds of golf the president has played? If the republican side want to make that a big issue.. it's just laughable. As for the unemployment figures - assuming they're in any way accurate, we're in a global economic crisis. This all didn't just happen when Obama took the throne. It's onset can be traced back years. What's a knock-on effect of an economic crisis? Yep - unemployment. That doesn't mean nothing should be done about it, nor that your current are doing enough for your country. I'm just saying that laying the blame like that is pretty silly.

Thus the 'human trash' comment.
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#279

Thank you, Martin. You summarized exactly the point I was trying to get across, but in my case the point kept getting ignored in favor of my proofs being turned into individual topics of debate.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#280

View PostMartin, on 07 August 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

I was just being facetious, and probably shouldn't have been. What I should have said is that I find people's political differences highly-amusing, and ordinarily cool and collected people (such as Max) lose their fucking rag when it comes to politics. I'm sure that big long list of 'facts' he posted does actually contain some real facts. Ordinarily, Max wouldn't get caught up in all that. However, when it came to politics, he was more than willing to buy a random fact sheet sponsored by his favoured side of government. Bias, in a person who doesn't usually display bias. Usually sane people losing the plot. Honestly, who cares how many rounds of golf the president has played? If the republican side want to make that a big issue.. it's just laughable. As for the unemployment figures - assuming they're in any way accurate, we're in a global economic crisis. This all didn't just happen when Obama took the throne. It's onset can be traced back years. What's a knock-on effect of an economic crisis? Yep - unemployment. That doesn't mean nothing should be done about it, nor that your current are doing enough for your country. I'm just saying that laying the blame like that is pretty silly.

Thus the 'human trash' comment.


You are backpedaling, as expected. The fact is, you let your emotions get the better of you more than he does. There are some items in those lists that are overblown, and some that would be true regardless of who was president. But on the whole, I agree with Max that Obama has been terrible.
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User is offline   Martin 

#281

View PostTrooper Dan, on 07 August 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

The fact is, you let your emotions get the better of you more than he does.


That's not a fact ;)
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#282

View PostTrooper Dan, on 07 August 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

But on the whole, I agree with Max that Obama has been terrible.

But no worse than George Bush, or Bill Clinton, or George H. W. Bush, or Ronald Reagan, or Jimmy Carter, or Gerald Ford, .. .........
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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

  • Glory To Motherland!

#283

Who was the last good President of the United States anyway? I'd say Eisenhower. Kennedy would've been a great President, I have no doubt, but he didn't last very long into his term.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#284

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 08 August 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

But no worse than George Bush, or Bill Clinton, or George H. W. Bush, or Ronald Reagan, or Jimmy Carter, or Gerald Ford, .. .........


Except none of them are president today. Obama is. When someone fails at everything you vote them out. If Romney sucks I'll vote for the other candidate if he (or she) sounds like a better option. Unless you are part of a union or have a federal job there is no benefit voting for Obama again. Personally, I think it's stupid to vote for anybody who has been in office beyond four years. They seem to always get corrupted.

The last great president was probably Lincoln. Ever since then both parties have been trying to find new ways to enslave people here or overseas.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 08 August 2012 - 11:46 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#285

You forgot Teddy, son.
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#286

View PostMad Max RW, on 08 August 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Except none of them are president today. Obama is. When someone fails at everything you vote them out. If Romney sucks I'll vote for the other candidate if he (or she) sounds like a better option. Unless you are part of a union or have a federal job there is no benefit voting for Obama again. Personally, I think it's stupid to vote for anybody who has been in office beyond four years. They seem to always get corrupted.


Romney was already busy doing his part to screw up the economy before he even became a politician.

This post has been edited by wayskobfssae: 08 August 2012 - 01:46 PM

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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

  • Glory To Motherland!

#287

View Postwayskobfssae, on 08 August 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Romney was already busy doing his part to screw up the economy before he even became a politician.


Yeah, remember that time he bullied a kid in elementary school? That must have sent the GDP diving about 2 or 3 percentage points right there.

This post has been edited by Achenar: 08 August 2012 - 02:04 PM

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#288

View PostAchenar, on 08 August 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Yeah, remember that time he bullied a kid in elementary school? That must have sent the GDP diving about 2 or 3 percentage points right there.


Wow, he was a businessman even then? Dang, he must be quite a prodigy.
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User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#289

Laying people off is BAD, right? And hiring them is GOOD. So let's just force companies to hire everyone and never fire anyone, and then the economy will take off like a rocket! YAY, I solved our economic problems. When do I get my Nobel Prize for economics? Too bad Romney isn't that smart. He thinks that sometimes a company is better served by laying people off. What a moron!
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#290

View PostTrooper Dan, on 08 August 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

Laying people off is BAD, right? And hiring them is GOOD. So let's just force companies to hire everyone and never fire anyone, and then the economy will take off like a rocket! YAY, I solved our economic problems. When do I get my Nobel Prize for economics? Too bad Romney isn't that smart. He thinks that sometimes a company is better served by laying people off. What a moron!


I'm sorry. You have forever changed my outlook on life. From now on I will fight the good fight, and only look at humans as assets, instead of... well... humans.

Regardless, Romney has been largely absent from this thread so far, and though this will probably be shocking to some, I'm not sold on Obama for this election by any means. That said, I'm curious to know what folks here see as the good points for electing Romney. So far if I were to base it on this discussion, all I'd have to go on is: Because Obama is the Antichrist and we have to get him out.

This post has been edited by wayskobfssae: 08 August 2012 - 02:46 PM

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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#291

In a time when a slight breeze can send us into another Great Depression, anybody who understands economics and how to run a business is better suited for president right now. The last four years proved Obama and not one person in his administration knows what they're doing. The public should have realized when the bottom 200 cities in the nation have been run by Democrats for most of the last 50 years. But he had a nice smile, could make a good speech, and Bush and the rest of the establishment Republicans got complacent with their power.
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#292

View PostMad Max RW, on 08 August 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

In a time when a slight breeze can send us into another Great Depression, anybody who understands economics and how to run a business is better suited for president right now. The last four years proved Obama and not one person in his administration knows what they're doing. The public should have realized when the bottom 200 cities in the nation have been run by Democrats for most of the last 50 years. But he had a nice smile, could make a good speech, and Bush and the rest of the establishment Republicans got complacent with their power.


You can only look at the country like a business so much.

Budget-balancing, wonderful! No doubt he can streamline that. The trouble though is you can only look at America as a business to a certain point. I haven't had an issue with Romney's layoff history because of propaganda telling us it's proof that he won't care about the lower/middle class (I have different reasons for worrying about that). The real trouble is, while you can save a business that way, you can't do that with a nation. In a corporation, when you lay someone off, they get their severance, and then they're not your problem anymore. In politics, EVERYONE is your problem. You also can't liquidate America if it ends up under-performing.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#293

View Postwayskobfssae, on 08 August 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

You also can't liquidate America if it ends up under-performing.


Try telling this to the numerous European nations doing exactly that. The only difference between us and them is more than half of Americans haven't embraced a socialist ideology. If you do some research you'll find out our government is preparing to sell off vast swathes of land and thousands of empty federal buildings to the highest bidder (most certainly China) in the event of a total collapse. The amount of land this administration and the previous have seized will blow your mind. Most of it they aren't doing anything with except sitting on valuable resources. That's the only thing of value America has left since we aren't manufacturing. Oh and dollars. We export tons of those.

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 08 August 2012 - 06:13 PM

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#294

View PostMad Max RW, on 08 August 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

Try telling this to the numerous European nations doing exactly that. The only difference between us and them is more than half of Americans haven't embraced a socialist ideology. If you do some research you'll find out our government is preparing to sell off vast swathes of land and thousands of empty federal buildings to the highest bidder (most certainly China) in the event of a total collapse. The amount of land this administration and the previous have seized will blow your mind. Most of it they aren't doing anything with except sitting on valuable resources. That's the only thing of value America has left since we aren't manufacturing. Oh and dollars. We export tons of those.

Posted Image


I was thinking more in terms of the entity of America rather than the land, or the businesses. But that's OK, it's still plenty relevant.

This gets to my biggest issue with Capitalism as it applies to America's current situation. If we follow Capitalism the way it is now, we can't be loyal. Capitalism by its very essence is anti-loyalist. Maximize profit by any means necessary (as long as it's legal or you can at least get away with it). How can we be loyal to America, AND follow that philosophy at the same time? The quest for maximum profit tells us America is not the best place to be. The idea of being Capitalist, and Patriotic, seems downright paradoxical.

America needs to make up its mind, preferably the right one, before one day we're literally selling government leadership positions to the highest overseas bidder.

This post has been edited by wayskobfssae: 08 August 2012 - 07:16 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#295

Yes, blame it on Obama when our Congress and Senate are literally fucking retarded.
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User is offline   Jeff 

#296

I've always wondered what an economic collapse would look like. I mean, there's a lot of talk where the dollar or other currencies will be replaced by gold or something else because the world can't pay off it's debt. Or that all my money pile will become worthless. I'm kind of perseverating about this a lot recently. It's got me worried.
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#297

View PostJeff, on 09 August 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

I've always wondered what an economic collapse would look like. I mean, there's a lot of talk where the dollar or other currencies will be replaced by gold or something else because the world can't pay off it's debt. Or that all my money pile will become worthless. I'm kind of perseverating about this a lot recently. It's got me worried.


Sadly, it's probably inevitable, whether we can find a good balance in the Federal budget or not. Whether we can balance the classes or not. Whether we can balance the economy globally or not. Businesses have somehow gotten this "perpetual growth" idea in their heads as not just an ideal, but a necessity. It is completely unrealistic; in fact it's impossible, yet everyone is pursuing it. And it's going to kill us in the end unless we enter some kind of a "business renaissance." Aside from everything the government needs to fix, the philosophy of business "ethics" needs to take a major shift as well. And not only do we have to worry about an economic collapse, but the eventual irreversible damage to Earth's ecology that will render life on this planet a nightmarish Hell.

This post has been edited by wayskobfssae: 10 August 2012 - 04:31 PM

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User is offline   Jeff 

#298

Why would they just ride out the storm so to speak? Why not do things to make sure this kind of thing never happens again? Don't want to repeat history. It happened in 1929 and it's happening again today because people don't learn from the past. If they don't learn from the past, they are destined to repeat themselves in the future.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#299

View Postwayskobfssae, on 10 August 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

eventual irreversible damage to Earth's ecology that will render life on this planet a nightmarish Hell.


And how do you suppose we get countries like China to comply with that? What do we do, declare war when a country refuses to shut down its coal plants? I don't think so. In the past they said the US should serve as an example and they will follow. It didn't happen. Environmentalism is important, but has totally lost the intended goals years ago in place of politics. I love how Obama keeps saying Republicans want dirty air and water, among many other lies.

If you want an idea what an economic collapse is like in a modern society look at Greece. Then look at Italy and Portugal and Spain and France. Then look at half the cities in California. Look at Detroit and Flint, Michigan. All of them and many more are brought down by the same ideological rhetoric as what our current liberal minded progressive leaders are still pushing today. Everything you hear on tv or are learning in school is a lie. The government can't fix anything. It's up to you to get some people together and do it yourself. Get organized.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 10 August 2012 - 06:21 PM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#300

View PostMad Max RW, on 10 August 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

And how do you suppose we get countries like China to comply with that? What do we do, declare war when a country refuses to shut down its coal plants? I don't think so. In the past they said the US should serve as an example and they will follow. It didn't happen. Environmentalism is important, but has totally lost the intended goals years ago in place of politics. I love how Obama keeps saying Republicans want dirty air and water, among many other lies.

If you want an idea what an economic collapse is like in a modern society look at Greece. Then look at Italy and Portugal and Spain and France. Then look at half the cities in California. Look at Detroit and Flint, Michigan. All of them and many more are brought down by the same ideological rhetoric as what our current liberal minded progressive leaders are still pushing today. Everything you hear on tv or are learning in school is a lie. The government can't fix anything. It's up to you to get some people together and do it yourself. Get organized.

That constitutes the basic definition of a government.
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