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DNF #1
Duke 3D #1
Attached File(s)
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Never Forgotten.zip (7.87K)
Number of downloads: 213
Never Forgotten "Number 2"
#1 Posted 31 January 2012 - 05:24 PM
After being kidnapped by the Aliens Duke escapes and goes after the Cycloid Emperor.
#2 Posted 31 January 2012 - 06:01 PM
Aah. . . . . Sorry . i accidentally downvoted first post without looking on this map. . . :/ later I verify this action. And now I going to sleep 
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#4 Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:11 PM
Unfortunately I have to agree to Mikko. Since I'm no mapper I can only state a player's point of view: this is in no way worth being released. Unless you put it in the Help Me thread and ask questions about specific problems with your map. Go to MSDN and get some maps rated about 85. Your goal should be to come up with something of that level. No need to reach it but show us you've tried.
#5 Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:16 PM
Now, now, I don't think you understood the idea behind this map, all that overscaling is not accidental;
That's obviously a nod to Dude where's my car, because that had a giant woman in it... Hmm... Giant woman... I never thought of that... Be back in a moment...
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Anyway, I think the design was supposed to resemble the Army Men games, this is clear to me, this is an army men themed map!
No, but on a serious note, in places, I can see that the idea behind the map probably was good, but the execution was poor. Maybe a good idea is to attempt to clone a part of an original Duke 3D map to get the hang of the basics, just a corridor and a few rooms, this was how I got started with mapping (albiet on Blood) and it helped me learn a lot, and be sure to check out the infosuite posted in the other thread. Releasing this sort of thing won't get you taken seriously, this community has (perhaps sometimes unfairly) high standards by this point.
Funny thing is though, I really get a vibe of BlackHar... nah, it can't be.
That's obviously a nod to Dude where's my car, because that had a giant woman in it... Hmm... Giant woman... I never thought of that... Be back in a moment...
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Anyway, I think the design was supposed to resemble the Army Men games, this is clear to me, this is an army men themed map!
No, but on a serious note, in places, I can see that the idea behind the map probably was good, but the execution was poor. Maybe a good idea is to attempt to clone a part of an original Duke 3D map to get the hang of the basics, just a corridor and a few rooms, this was how I got started with mapping (albiet on Blood) and it helped me learn a lot, and be sure to check out the infosuite posted in the other thread. Releasing this sort of thing won't get you taken seriously, this community has (perhaps sometimes unfairly) high standards by this point.
Funny thing is though, I really get a vibe of BlackHar... nah, it can't be.
- Honored Donor
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#6 Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:23 PM
I played it, took me just under 4 minutes. It was very slightly better than your previous maps, but not by much. That 8 year old's map I was talking about is still more detailed than this. Mini maps recently made in another thread here: http://forums.duke4....apping-project/ which were made in one and a half hours were much more detailed, and on average, have a longer playing time than this map. And they have a larger file size (which can often be a good representation of the amount of detail in the map, this map has a very small file size). Am I to assume you only spent one and a half hours on your map?
The map was fairly balanced, and has ok gameplay, I didn't have to cheat or anything to finish it. Was it kind of fun? Yes. Would I play it or another similar map again? No. When I said in the other thread that maps need to be at least as detailed as the original maps in the game, I meant it. You didn't even try to add details, just a lot more empty rooms. Please do try next time; a map must look good as well as play well. The fact is, no body is going to play maps like this, because there are already hundreds if not thousands of other maps out there which are much, much better, or at least have more than a basic (or non existent) level of detail. I can guarentee you that 90% of the people who downloaded your map were probably mappers curious about what you did; they probably only wanted to look at the map, not play it.
Keep on mapping, but do not release anything for at least two months. If you want to make good maps that other people will play, all it takes is a bit of research; play a few good user maps, I'm sure people can recommend them if you ask. Note about them what makes them good. Is it large empty areas with lots of enemies and a truck load of ammo? Probably not, that sort of thing might go down well in Doom, but this is Duke Nukem 3D. Think of it like this: Every room needs to have a purpose. And just having a room for the sake of killing enemies doesn't count. For example you might think "I want this room to be an appartment" then you go ahead and start putting in things appartments normally have; a kitchen, lounge room with tables and chairs and a TV, lights on the ceiling, etc.. and spend a decent amount of time doing nothing but putting those details in. Remember, at least as many details as the original maps. Your mapping ability will accelerate very quickly if you'd just listen to what some of the very talented people here are trying to tell you, don't dismiss our advice lightly.
Btw, it'd be nice if you can include this with your next map: http://infosuite.duk...es_map_template it's a template for a text file in which you can write information about yourself and the map. E.g what renderer you wish the player to use, whether they should use the HRP, when the map was released, how long it took to make, etc..
The map was fairly balanced, and has ok gameplay, I didn't have to cheat or anything to finish it. Was it kind of fun? Yes. Would I play it or another similar map again? No. When I said in the other thread that maps need to be at least as detailed as the original maps in the game, I meant it. You didn't even try to add details, just a lot more empty rooms. Please do try next time; a map must look good as well as play well. The fact is, no body is going to play maps like this, because there are already hundreds if not thousands of other maps out there which are much, much better, or at least have more than a basic (or non existent) level of detail. I can guarentee you that 90% of the people who downloaded your map were probably mappers curious about what you did; they probably only wanted to look at the map, not play it.
Keep on mapping, but do not release anything for at least two months. If you want to make good maps that other people will play, all it takes is a bit of research; play a few good user maps, I'm sure people can recommend them if you ask. Note about them what makes them good. Is it large empty areas with lots of enemies and a truck load of ammo? Probably not, that sort of thing might go down well in Doom, but this is Duke Nukem 3D. Think of it like this: Every room needs to have a purpose. And just having a room for the sake of killing enemies doesn't count. For example you might think "I want this room to be an appartment" then you go ahead and start putting in things appartments normally have; a kitchen, lounge room with tables and chairs and a TV, lights on the ceiling, etc.. and spend a decent amount of time doing nothing but putting those details in. Remember, at least as many details as the original maps. Your mapping ability will accelerate very quickly if you'd just listen to what some of the very talented people here are trying to tell you, don't dismiss our advice lightly.
Btw, it'd be nice if you can include this with your next map: http://infosuite.duk...es_map_template it's a template for a text file in which you can write information about yourself and the map. E.g what renderer you wish the player to use, whether they should use the HRP, when the map was released, how long it took to make, etc..
This post has been edited by Micky C: 31 January 2012 - 07:34 PM
#7 Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:53 PM
I always thought the mini duke maps were a NOD to honey I shrunk the kids or more so RAT maps.
#8 Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:01 AM
Oooh my. . . This map is a little better than these before but You missing a point, too much brainless shooting and no interering places to explore but, just keep learning as I am doing (Im also novice with Duke mapping..)
make levels for yourself and on every of them use new feature from tutorial. Make sure everything is working ok and with that method You just learn more and more and eventually make map that kick asses ! 
but, just keep learning as I am doing (Im also novice with Duke mapping..) make levels for yourself and on every of them use new feature from tutorial. Make sure everything is working ok and with that method You just learn more and more and eventually make map that kick asses !
This post has been edited by Arwu: 01 February 2012 - 04:21 AM
#9 Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:33 PM
This map is better than the previous, but still needs more work. Next time try and make just one good-looking room so you can get a better feeling of how much work a great map needs. For some reason i always like the gameplay more in these not so detailed maps, so that's a plus
#10 Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:36 PM
Arwu, on 01 February 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:
Oooh my. . . This map is a little better than these before but You missing a point, too much brainless shooting and no interering places to explore but, just keep learning as I am doing (Im also novice with Duke mapping..) make levels for yourself and on every of them use new feature from tutorial. Make sure everything is working ok and with that method You just learn more and more and eventually make map that kick asses !
but, just keep learning as I am doing (Im also novice with Duke mapping..) make levels for yourself and on every of them use new feature from tutorial. Make sure everything is working ok and with that method You just learn more and more and eventually make map that kick asses ! Arwu, do you even like Duke Nukem? I mean seriously, Duke Nukem is a bunch of brainless shooting. Yeah it had detail and stuff like that... BUTit still had A LOT of brainless shooting.
- Honored Donor
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#11 Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:59 PM
Doom has a lot of brainless shooting, Serious Sam has a lot of brainless shooting, and yes to some extent Duke has some brainless shooting, but one of the major points of Duke 3D that really sets it apart, even today, is its intricate level design and (quasi) believable urban, hi tech and alien environments, and to some extent the humour, tone, interactivity and scripted events like exploding buildings. If the people here only liked brainless shooting, this forum would be called Doom4.net or something. Some people might bitch slap me for saying this, but unless you change your mapping habits, you might as give up Duke mapping and get into Doom mapping. Although I haven't played any custom doom maps so the standard might have gone up there as well.
Or, if you still think your maps are all that, submit it to MSDN for a review and see what you get: http://msdn.duke4.net/
Or, if you still think your maps are all that, submit it to MSDN for a review and see what you get: http://msdn.duke4.net/
#12 Posted 01 February 2012 - 07:19 PM
Never Forgotten, on 01 February 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:
Arwu, do you even like Duke Nukem? I mean seriously, Duke Nukem is a bunch of brainless shooting. Yeah it had detail and stuff like that... BUTit still had A LOT of brainless shooting.
(Micky C beat me to most points, while I was looking for the map)
The original duke maps, have a fine balance of weapons, ammo, health and actors. One could degrade the actual game to a mindless shooter (FPS), but the layouts of the maps are anything but. And I think this is what Arwu is getting at. Fast forward to today's maps, they have improved. If you want to stay 'old school' for a not so detailed but 'intelligent' layout look at Robert Travis' Aztec map.
This post has been edited by Hank: 01 February 2012 - 07:22 PM
#13 Posted 01 February 2012 - 07:44 PM
Micky C, on 01 February 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:
Doom has a lot of brainless shooting, Serious Sam has a lot of brainless shooting, and yes to some extent Duke has some brainless shooting, but one of the major points of Duke 3D that really sets it apart, even today, is its intricate level design and (quasi) believable urban, hi tech and alien environments, and to some extent the humour, tone, interactivity and scripted events like exploding buildings. If the people here only liked brainless shooting, this forum would be called Doom4.net or something. Some people might bitch slap me for saying this, but unless you change your mapping habits, you might as give up Duke mapping and get into Doom mapping. Although I haven't played any custom doom maps so the standard might have gone up there as well.
Or, if you still think your maps are all that, submit it to MSDN for a review and see what you get: http://msdn.duke4.net/
Or, if you still think your maps are all that, submit it to MSDN for a review and see what you get: http://msdn.duke4.net/
I'm not going to give up building, or change, just because some dumb ass "Pro" builders think my maps aren't that good, or I'm not that all talented... Duke Nukem 3D is my favorite game, and it has a lot more brainless shooting then Doom, Doom had story. Duke 3D didn't... just some good detail and shooting, with a little bit of story. I'm tired of being told I'm "not good enough" I've been told that enough, so if you have something other than that to say, say it... if not, get the fuck out of my way.
#14 Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:22 PM
I can point at a set of scribbles and call it art. I might think it's art. Other people probably won't.
If you tell your audience that your opinion doesn't matter, you're not going to have anyone to play your maps. This means you're going to have to map for the fun of it and not to have other people play your maps. And if you're satisfied with that, congratulations--just don't expect other people to subscribe to your school of thought.
Edit: keep in mind that there are very few active Duke communities anymore. The people responding to your hostile posts are the main people that are going to play (or not play) your maps. Duke Repository is dead; most of the people here have accounts at all the other usual places.
If you tell your audience that your opinion doesn't matter, you're not going to have anyone to play your maps. This means you're going to have to map for the fun of it and not to have other people play your maps. And if you're satisfied with that, congratulations--just don't expect other people to subscribe to your school of thought.
Edit: keep in mind that there are very few active Duke communities anymore. The people responding to your hostile posts are the main people that are going to play (or not play) your maps. Duke Repository is dead; most of the people here have accounts at all the other usual places.
This post has been edited by Supertanker: 01 February 2012 - 08:24 PM
- I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...
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#15 Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:44 PM
This guy cant be helped and wont listen so I wouldnt waste my time trying to tell him how to improve.
#16 Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:28 PM
Never Forgotten, only shooting and shooting is not what I like, gameplay such as yours do not fits to my style. Sorry, no bonus. Duke Nukem is still my favourite 3d shooter. You forgot to put interering places to explore, it is not funny to fight aliens bastards in square rooms, where I can hide or run if every room is a square and had many enemies huh ? there no surprises or nothing interering. . Also, guys here give to you honest opinions and you tell them to fuck yourselfs. . Very nice. you want to everybody lie to you?
- Honored Donor
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#17 Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:25 AM
Never Forgotten, on 01 February 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:
I'm not going to give up building, or change, just because some dumb ass "Pro" builders think my maps aren't that good, or I'm not that all talented... Duke Nukem 3D is my favorite game, and it has a lot more brainless shooting then Doom, Doom had story. Duke 3D didn't... just some good detail and shooting, with a little bit of story. I'm tired of being told I'm "not good enough" I've been told that enough, so if you have something other than that to say, say it... if not, get the fuck out of my way.
You don't understand that you're not bringing anything new to the table. Anything you've done could've been done by any one of us in just a few minutes. Anyone can draw elementary stick figures.
This post has been edited by Mikko_Sandt: 02 February 2012 - 05:25 AM
- Let's go Brandon!
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#18 Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:33 PM
I don't get all the hate. I thought this map was very impressive. I don't think I've ever seen someone so creative to create an interactive helicopter. That was really cool. I'd give it a 9/10, but only because nothing is perfect, lol! I look forward to everything you'll be releasing.
- Weaponized Autism
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#19 Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:53 PM
Wolfe is right. Maps don't have to be detailed or "correct" to be creative and fun. I had fun playing this map even though it was rather silly at times and facepalm-worthy at others. Probably my favorite mod/TC is LostDuke, which is not very detailed but is extremely creative and quite fun.
- Honored Donor
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#20 Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:29 AM
I'm fairly sure he was being sarcastic.
Although I do agree with you to some extent; as I said before I enjoyed the map somewhat. I wouldn't recommend it, but as a one-off it was different and at least it was short so it ended before the non-stop action became repetitive and tedious, however it doesn't change the fact that if he (or anyone else for that matter) keeps making more maps with a similar amount of detail and design, it's going to get very old very fast.
Although I do agree with you to some extent; as I said before I enjoyed the map somewhat. I wouldn't recommend it, but as a one-off it was different and at least it was short so it ended before the non-stop action became repetitive and tedious, however it doesn't change the fact that if he (or anyone else for that matter) keeps making more maps with a similar amount of detail and design, it's going to get very old very fast.
#21 Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:00 PM
Micky C, on 03 February 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:
I'm fairly sure he was being sarcastic.
Although I do agree with you to some extent; as I said before I enjoyed the map somewhat. I wouldn't recommend it, but as a one-off it was different and at least it was short so it ended before the non-stop action became repetitive and tedious, however it doesn't change the fact that if he (or anyone else for that matter) keeps making more maps with a similar amount of detail and design, it's going to get very old very fast.
Although I do agree with you to some extent; as I said before I enjoyed the map somewhat. I wouldn't recommend it, but as a one-off it was different and at least it was short so it ended before the non-stop action became repetitive and tedious, however it doesn't change the fact that if he (or anyone else for that matter) keeps making more maps with a similar amount of detail and design, it's going to get very old very fast.
Hotel:
Number of downloads: 187
Outside of the Hotel:
Number of downloads: 179
My new map, work in progress, what you see is just a little bit into it.
#22 Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:59 PM
Hmmm these images look more promising than before.
that graffiti and other sprites do not look good on windows I think
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Anyway, good luck:)
that graffiti and other sprites do not look good on windows I think
.Anyway, good luck:)
#23 Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:15 PM
Never Forgotten, on 03 February 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:
Hotel:
capt0005.bmp
Outside of the Hotel:
capt0006.bmp
My new map, work in progress, what you see is just a little bit into it.
capt0005.bmpOutside of the Hotel:
capt0006.bmpMy new map, work in progress, what you see is just a little bit into it.
Looking good.
I like the outdoor area, but the graffiti is on wrong place.
Have you ever seen a graffiti on a window?
- I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...
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#24 Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:32 PM
I cant see the pictures atm, but I have seen graffiti everywhere including windows.
#25 Posted 04 February 2012 - 12:28 AM
Not only graffiti but broken wall sprite are also on window 
just take a closer look 
this is nothing but. . looks comical
@Never Forgotten, seems You enjoy mapping more than I thought. thats good, very good and I like it.
I have a little request to you, if showing images next time, maybe You use a .jpg format? .. (or .png if showing screenshots from mapster 2D mode). Thats be nice and keeps smaller file size. .
just take a closer look this is nothing but. . looks comical @Never Forgotten, seems You enjoy mapping more than I thought.
thats good, very good and I like it. I have a little request to you, if showing images next time, maybe You use a .jpg format? .. (or .png if showing screenshots from mapster 2D mode). Thats be nice and keeps smaller file size. .
- Honored Donor
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#26 Posted 04 February 2012 - 04:55 AM
I should have mentioned this a while ago but only remembered now. I wrote up a speed mapping guide to help people build more, faster. The thing about mapster32 is that it all revolves around keyboard shortcuts (like a hundred or so), and a beginner such as yourself would only know a small amount of these.
Chances are things which would normally take you countless minutes can actually be done with the push of a button.
So the guide states and explains some of the most useful and/or lesser known key combinations and functions of the program, as well as some general useful techniques for making high quality stuff quickly. It's only a text document so it might look a bit plain, but try reading all of it at least once. You might not understand everything, for example I suggest you skip the 'advanced highlighting' and 'speed hilling/valleying' sections which are at the start and end of the guide, but everything else is good stuff which will save you hours in the long run.
It can be viewed here: https://docs.google....?hl=en_US&pli=1
Chances are things which would normally take you countless minutes can actually be done with the push of a button.
So the guide states and explains some of the most useful and/or lesser known key combinations and functions of the program, as well as some general useful techniques for making high quality stuff quickly. It's only a text document so it might look a bit plain, but try reading all of it at least once. You might not understand everything, for example I suggest you skip the 'advanced highlighting' and 'speed hilling/valleying' sections which are at the start and end of the guide, but everything else is good stuff which will save you hours in the long run.
It can be viewed here: https://docs.google....?hl=en_US&pli=1
#27 Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:52 AM
I'd go to the help forum for this, but this is quicker. How do you insert your own images into mapster32. I tried the DEF thing, it didn't work. Any help?
#28 Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:34 AM
Never Forgotten, on 04 February 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:
I'd go to the help forum for this, but this is quicker. How do you insert your own images into mapster32. I tried the DEF thing, it didn't work. Any help?
In order for the def thing to work, you must have a dummy texture set in the art file at the exact tile number of the texture in the def file.
#29 Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:37 AM
Never Forgotten, on 04 February 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:
I'd go to the help forum for this, but this is quicker. How do you insert your own images into mapster32. I tried the DEF thing, it didn't work. Any help?
In order for the def thing to work, you must have a dummy texture set in the art file at the exact tile number of the texture in the def file.
More info at http://wiki.eduke32....age#Definitions
