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Were the vegas levels ment to be set at night

User is offline   fatfat1 

#1

I remember reading on a post on this forum i think that said the vegas in ruins levels and the levels outside buildings were supposed to be set at night time. Is this true. It would make sense because when duke is finished fighting the mothership with the turret he falls back and then it says something like 4 hours later.

Thanks Aaron
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User is offline   ReaperMan 

#2

View Postfatfat1, on 29 October 2011 - 09:42 AM, said:

Is this true.

Yes its true, there are a few pics and i think videos showing those levels at night.
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User is offline   fatfat1 

#3

View PostReaperMan, on 29 October 2011 - 09:43 AM, said:

Yes its true, there are a few pics and i think videos showing those levels at night.


Thanks for the reply
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#4

I think the game would have looked a lot better at night because of all the beautiful lights in vegas. The daylight version we see today looks gray and empty to me. I still like the mapping in the game in general.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#5

Every piece of media leading up to the point where Gearbox got them (including some of the leaked stuff from the 3DR fallout) has shown the Vegas levels to be at night. It definitely looks like something that was changed at the last moment once GBX picked it up.
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User is offline   Jblade 

#6

I was thinking this as I was playing it, it seemed so strange to set it at day since it looked pretty ugly - surely setting at night would of helped performance and looked FAR better as well due to all of the nights? Even Fallout: New Vegas managed to look amazing at night and that was on Gamebryo.
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User is offline   ---- 

#7

View PostJames, on 29 October 2011 - 11:47 AM, said:

I was thinking this as I was playing it, it seemed so strange to set it at day since it looked pretty ugly - surely setting at night would of helped performance and looked FAR better as well due to all of the nights? Even Fallout: New Vegas managed to look amazing at night and that was on Gamebryo.


A few places from the Brian Brewer reel shows the outdoor parts at the same daylight they were in the final though. And they were "released" right after 3DR had to lay the staff off.

gametrailers.com/user-movie/duke-nukem-forever-demo-reel/318304 (we all know that video, but I just watched it again and found some stuff to be lit like in the final DNF)

So it might be that it was daylight already at 3DR's (but probably they planeed to improve and polish the graphics, which GBX definately forgot to do).

The 2007 teaser looked like some outdoor parts were still at night though.

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 29 October 2011 - 03:09 PM

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User is offline   zwieback 

#8

View Postfuegerstef, on 29 October 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

The 2007 teaser looked like some outdoor parts were still at night though.



^this - and it looked great :D
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#9

It doesn't really matter whether it was 3DR, Triptych, or Gearbox who made the decision. We know that at some point, all the levels were at night, IIRC it was a group vote to change it, and the majority were in favour of daylight. We know that a lot of if not most of the workers from 3DR moved on the Triptych, then Gearbox, so if you're going to blame anyone, blame those workers, as it doesn't matter where they were when they did the vote.

Heh, if only they were as talented as they were dedicated then DNF might not have sucked so much.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 29 October 2011 - 06:01 PM

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User is offline   Kathy 

#10

Treptych trailer also doesn't have night sections. Although, some part of the game in it do look like it's getting late, but not to the point of being really dark like in 2001 trailer.

View PostMicky C, on 29 October 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

It doesn't really matter whether it was 3DR, Triptych, or Gearbox who made the decision. We know that at some point, all the levels were at night, IIRC it was a group vote to change it, and the majority were in favour of daylight.

Where did you hear that?

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We know that a lot of if not most of the workers from 3DR moved on the Triptych, then Gearbox,

Only 8-9 workers from DNF team became Treptych. It's hardly "most".

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Heh, if only they were as talented as they were dedicated then DNF might not have sucked so much.

The game most likely sucked because of (mis)management, not artists.

This post has been edited by Helel: 29 October 2011 - 07:11 PM

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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#11

View PostHelel, on 29 October 2011 - 07:08 PM, said:

Where did you hear that?


It was one if the video interviews, I think. It'd be next to impossible to sift through all the youtube videos to find it though.

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Only 8-9 workers from DNF team became Treptych. It's hardly "most".


The impression I got was that Gearbox hired hired many 3D Realms ex-employees directly 'before they were scattered to the winds' as Randy put it. Although looking at the 3DR photo, 8-9 make up one quarter. Still, I also remember saying something like "if you look at the 3D Realms team, everyone with the exception of 2 names is now working at Gearbox."

Quote

The game most likely sucked because of (mis)management, not artists.


I was thinking about blaming the entire team for the crappiness that is DNF. Although if the artists seriously thought that daytime vegas looked better (keeping in mind visuals is what they're payed for), then maybe they should be replaced by some 3 year olds who can draw with crayons. At least they would have thought, and rightfully so, that "ooo awl da lites arr pweettyy" and gone the night route.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 29 October 2011 - 07:53 PM

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#12

I agree that the Vegas levels would have been much better at night.

Seriously, Vegas in Ruins is the ugliest level graphically in the entire game. So much bland textures and lighting. Dam Top and the highway levels come next.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#13

View PostHelel, on 29 October 2011 - 07:08 PM, said:

The game most likely sucked because of (mis)management, not artists.

Every single issue with the game comes down to this. All it needed to be a great game was for George Broussard to have a partner that would be able to tell him no, and to wrap things up. That is where Scott Miller dropped the ball.
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User is offline   Kathy 

#14

Scott probably weren't much involved with 3dRealms once he get interested in Radar etc. But he still should have somehow influenced GB.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#15

Well, it originally started out that George was the game maker, and Scott was the businessman. It still kinda worked that way as the company evolved. At some point, Scott should have said "Holy shit, we've wasted 2 million dollars on this. Finish it and make it good." Probably around 1999 would have been nice.
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User is offline   necroslut 

#16

Since the lighting is probably the thing in DNF that's the best looking, it was probably a mistake to change the levels to daytime.
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User is offline   ThePinkus 

#17

IIRC they didn't want to do the levels at night anymore because for one nighttime vegas is overdone (in their opinion) and that apparently there was rendering problems I think?
Basically setting it at daytime somehow worked better with their engine.
Which is bullshit, because nighttime is ALWAYS better over daytime Vegas. Its 'overdone' for a reason
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#18

I always say that whenever the developers make up an excuse like that, it means they're trying to convince themselves that it's the best decision as much as they're trying to convince us.

A great metaphor for DNF is the flying pig (bbq roast that Homer was cooking) in the Simpsons. He kept running after it although he was never going to catch it, saying "it's still good, it's still good" when all these bad things were happening to it making it practically uneatable.
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User is offline   Oook 

#19

I agree. I really enjoy playing DNF, but in levels as Crash Course or Vegas in Ruins I felt something was terribly wrong. The draw distance doesn't help neither. Those levels were definitely meant to be played at night.
Watching the old trailers and seeing how great the game could have been... it's really sad.
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User is offline   Graywolf 

#20

I think the whole game supposed to be at night.

If not impressive, at least all night/dusk and indoor levels of DNF looks fairly good, unlike the atrocious vegas streets levels.
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User is offline   ThePinkus 

#21

View PostOook, on 03 November 2011 - 09:43 AM, said:

I agree. I really enjoy playing DNF, but in levels as Crash Course or Vegas in Ruins I felt something was terribly wrong. The draw distance doesn't help neither. Those levels were definitely meant to be played at night.
Watching the old trailers and seeing how great the game could have been... it's really sad.


Crash course was fine. It was one of the few levels in any game that actually gave a bit of vertigo/fear of heights, and I don't think that could've been achieved if the skybox was just black with some neon lights.
Have Duke run around Vegas at night on the strip, go into the Dukedome, get knocked out by the Queen, some hours later wake up at morning and start Crash course. How it should have been, and probably how it was planned
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#22

I still much rather prefer the "first" Cycloid Emperor encounter in the final game, with the rain effects and fighting in fornt of the LA skyline, than the one in the leak that just looked like a bland daytime battle in the middle of nowhere. And I always thought Duke fit much better at night....seeing how most of his games prior gave you the late night urban feel. It would've worked perfectly in DNF, but instead, it all looks like it takes place within one day...maybe even less.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#23

Exactly, the aliens never seem like a threat because of how quickly Duke ruins their plans. The story writing was fucking attrocious, I mean; the aliens have intergalactic (or at least interstellar) space travel, which requires tremendous energy, yet they need the piss weak hydroelectric generators at Hoover Dam to open a portal? Oh please...
And the portal doesn't even do anything, they might as well have chosen a big ray gun. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't set up so much of a story at the start of the game. It makes plotless 80s action films cringe with embarrassment.
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User is offline   ThePinkus 

#24

All the levels basically being set in one day didn't help. Neither did the feeling of "there should've been a few more levels in here and here, otherwise it makes no sense how I all of a sudden ended up in this section"
Its funny how, after you destroy the mothership, you get knocked out for 4 hours. Its still daytime. When you kill the queen, you get knocked out again. ITS STILL DAYLIGHT WHEN YOU WAKE UP. And its not like you woke up a day later. After the mothership, it specifically says 4 hours, and when you kill the Queen, you get picked up by a chopper, and in the next scene your just leaving the duke burger.
Come to think of it, were there ANY night time levels at all?
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#25

The only one that comes to mind is the first Cycloid battle... which is funnily enough non-canonical to the story.
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User is offline   Kathy 

#26

View PostThePinkus, on 04 November 2011 - 06:45 PM, said:

Come to think of it, were there ANY night time levels at all?

Well, there were dark areas in the Shrink Machine where you needed to use the shitty Duke Vision. Worst night vision ever in games.

This post has been edited by Helel: 04 November 2011 - 09:58 PM

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User is offline   Psyrgery 

#27

The decision to shift the daytime of the levels from night to daylight was before the game was moved to Gearbox, the great George Broussard accepted. Moron.

Posted Image

Much better at night.

Not only that, DNF's lightning is quite neat for the game's shitty engine and graphics, the look of the game may have improved quite a bit.

Hopefully, modders will fix that easily.

Oh, I forgot. No fucking modding tools. It's funny because the Map editor was already included within the game -> Evidence Also, the maps here are at night (Vegas in Ruin)

Fuck you Gearbox.

This post has been edited by Psyrgery: 09 November 2011 - 11:10 AM

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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#28

I'm not sure if that screenshot is from an actual level. To me it just looks like something cooked up for the trailer. It appears to just be a flat plane, a skybox, and some models.
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#29

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 09 November 2011 - 11:54 AM, said:

I'm not sure if that screenshot is from an actual level. To me it just looks like something cooked up for the trailer. It appears to just be a flat plane, a skybox, and some models.

In the first leaked trailer which was put together as a portfolio demo for an animator, there was a boss fight where the map was at night.
Here's a link that takes you straight to that part of the video where the level is at night.
http://youtu.be/DQPy...Cs?hd=1&t=1m51s
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User is offline   Kathy 

#30

That looks like night to me.

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