[deuxsonic]

So I decided to play an old TC I had played eons ago, Mystique: Ages In Time, and the first episode has a total of 10 levels, and in the past I've run into problems with mods that try to do more than the normal 6 singleplayer level campaign that the vanilla game does where levels won't load or load improperly after being saved if they're past that 6th level (you can see this in the Duke Nukem 64 mod where saving your game on Duke Burger and loading will result in the default music playing instead of the defined level song and other oddities), and indeed I'm running into a problem with Ages In Time.

definelevelname 0 0 AiTe1l1.map 10:13 04:43 Beginning of the End
definelevelname 0 1 AiTe1l2.map 07:21 03:32 Trinity
definelevelname 0 2 AiTe1l3.map 11:13 02:05 Vicksburg Area
definelevelname 0 3 AiTe1l4.map 11:11 11:11 Grassy Banks
definelevelname 0 4 AiTe1l5.map 11:11 11:11 Hell on Ice
definelevelname 0 5 AiTe1l6.map 11:11 11:11 Village of the Damned
definelevelname 0 6 AiTe1l7.map 11:11 11:11 dark journey
definelevelname 0 7 AiTe1l8.map 11:11 11:11 Flood Barriers
definelevelname 0 8 AiTe1l9.map 11:11 11:11 EVE OF COMBAT
definelevelname 0 9 AiTe1l10.map 11:11 11:11 One must die

This is what the first episode looks like in AGESUSER.CON. I can get to level 7 without issue, but when exiting level 7, the log will say that the level is the wrong version or cannot be found and shows some garbled name when I can load the level fine via the User Map option in the Episode menu.

Map "ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
" not found or invalid map version!

Since the map does exist as it's defined in the CON file, but Duke has seemingly always had problems with these "extended" episodes. Is there some kind of hard-coded limit to how long episode 1 is allowed to be or what? I'm not sure exactly why this has been an issue for so long as it seems like EDuke32 would have long since fixed any such limitation. I can include more info and the mod if needed to try and figure out what the problem is.

Attached File(s)

•  AGESUSER.CON (42.85K)
  Number of downloads: 231

[TheDragonLiner]

I remember Zaxtor had a TC's first episode longer than 7 levels but what he did to avoid your problem is that he attributed different numbers to the maps that are targeted when you end a level perhaps he never used a 7 coded map.

What I imply is that maybe you can code the levels of the TC differently so that they still have the same order but for exemple the 7th level is given the 8 number and the last level is given 7 or something like that in order not to load a map the game can't found or use ....
But that would be hard, there must be another way around this :/

[Hendricks266]

There are weird issues resulting from the game overwriting E1L8's slot for usermaps. I'm working on solving that now but there is a lot of confusing logic in the game's code to iron out.

[deuxsonic]

Hendricks266, on 07 February 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

There are weird issues resulting from the game overwriting E1L8's slot for usermaps. I'm working on solving that now but there is a lot of confusing logic in the game's code to iron out.

Why was that used for usermaps in the first place? Didn't DOOM just overwrite Map01? Even back when this mod came out I couldn't play all the way through the first episode because of this so it would be nice to see the mod and all the other mods that suffer from this issue work properly.

It seems strange that they did it this way. I suppose what you could do is shift every episode down 1 and then moving the 5-level DM episode to episode 1 but that involves me modding a mod from 1998 which potentially has pitfalls of it's own. It's just frustrating that after all these years we still have this strange behavior from the game. So much of Duke seems hard-coded when it shouldn't have been, especially when it was so great about including the modding tools for the game that the developers themselves used.

thedrawliner, on 07 February 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

I remember Zaxtor had a TC's first episode longer than 7 levels but what he did to avoid your problem is that he attributed different numbers to the maps that are targeted when you end a level perhaps he never used a 7 coded map.

What I imply is that maybe you can code the levels of the TC differently so that they still have the same order but for exemple the 7th level is given the 8 number and the last level is given 7 or something like that in order not to load a map the game can't found or use ....
But that would be hard, there must be another way around this :/

Duke Nukem 64 mod managed to avoid this by not using the E1L8 spot, but even then it still has weirdness if you try to save the game and then load from that. AIT uses 10 spots per episode. Vanilla Duke uses what, 11 for each episode except the first? *sigh*

[Fox]

deuxsonic, on 07 February 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Why was that used for usermaps in the first place? Didn't DOOM just overwrite Map01?

Doom mods load a second .wad file that replaced the default levels.

deuxsonic, on 07 February 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Even back when this mod came out I couldn't play all the way through the first episode because of this so it would be nice to see the mod and all the other mods that suffer from this issue work properly.

I remember playing some mods with more than seven levels in the first episode in the DOS version. The only issue is that it was not possible to jump to these levels with DNSCOTTY.

deuxsonic, on 07 February 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Duke Nukem 64 mod managed to avoid this by not using the E1L8 spot, but even then it still has weirdness if you try to save the game and then load from that. AIT uses 10 spots per episode. Vanilla Duke uses what, 11 for each episode except the first? *sigh*

I am using E1L8 slot. I suppose it works because I rewrote the code that determine the next level.

[deuxsonic]

Fox, on 07 February 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

Doom mods load a second .wad file that replaced the default levels.


I remember playing some mods with more than seven levels in the first episode in the DOS version. The only issue is that it was not possible to jump to these levels with DNSCOTTY.


I am using E1L8 slot. I suppose it works because I rewrote the code that determine the next level.

That was actually one of the only bugs I ran into in the Duke 64 mod is that if you save your game on that level, loading from the save will load the user map music and all that, but I don't know how much you can do to fix it. You probably wouldn't even notice if you play it without music like the original game had but I play it with the PS1 soundtrack.

[Jimmy]

In Doom you can have your WAD take place in any level number. The first level is just the most common.

[Zaxtor]

My method to "Exploit E1" and make 11 levels in it was.


Is no con coding but level ending adjustment.

E1L1 (level 1) = no special exit button
E1L2 (level 2) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L7 (level 3) = lo 7
E1L7 (level 3) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L3 (level 4) = lo 3
E1L3 (level 4) = no special exit button for normal route / as for secret level you use a green nuke button to lead to E1L11 (Secret level) = lo 11
E1L4 (level 5) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L8 (level 6) = lo 8
E1L8 (level 6) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L5 (level 7) = lo 5
E1L5 (level 7) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L9 (level 8) = lo 9
E1L9 (level 8) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L6 (level 9) = lo 6
E1L6 (level 9) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L10 (level 10) = lo 10
E1L10 (level 10) = you beat a boss to end level
E1L11 (Secret level) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L4 (level 5) = lo 4


Only downside which isnt serious is you cannot use dnscotty to skip levels or it will cause the trick not to work properly.

[deuxsonic]

Zaxtor, on 11 February 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

My method to "Exploit E1" and make 11 levels in it was.


Is no con coding but level ending adjustment.

E1L1 (level 1) = no special exit button
E1L2 (level 2) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L7 (level 3) = lo 7
E1L7 (level 3) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L3 (level 4) = lo 3
E1L3 (level 4) = no special exit button for normal route / as for secret level you use a green nuke button to lead to E1L11 (Secret level) = lo 11
E1L4 (level 5) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L8 (level 6) = lo 8
E1L8 (level 6) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L5 (level 7) = lo 5
E1L5 (level 7) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L9 (level 8) = lo 9
E1L9 (level 8) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L6 (level 9) = lo 6
E1L6 (level 9) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L10 (level 10) = lo 10
E1L10 (level 10) = you beat a boss to end level
E1L11 (Secret level) = uses a green nuke button to lead to E1L4 (level 5) = lo 4


Only downside which isnt serious is you cannot use dnscotty to skip levels or it will cause the trick not to work properly.

Wow. I'm trying to figure out how this even works. 1, 2, 7, 3, 11, 4, 8, 5, 9, 6, 10... Why this order? I'm hurting my brain trying to figure this out.

[Zaxtor]

I had a similar problem when I made E1 in Oblivion and I started placing them like that and it worked.

Episode 3 has a minor version of it to allow to have 2 secret levels in Episode 3.

[deuxsonic]

Didn't Episode 3 already have 2 secret levels, Tier Drops and Freeway? Is there a maximum number of maps you can have in an episode? How does the skipping around dodge the E1 issue? It seems strange that this stuff was seemingly hard-coded like it was, like weapon behavior where everyone's TC could only ever reskin existing weapons, not change their behavior because I guess they're all hard-coded as well?

[Fox]

deuxsonic, on 12 February 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

Wow. I'm trying to figure out how this even works. 1, 2, 7, 3, 11, 4, 8, 5, 9, 6, 10... Why this order? I'm hurting my brain trying to figure this out.

That's Zaxtor for you. The actual order doesn't matter, but that you can avoid it by using a secret nukebutton to the next level.

deuxsonic, on 12 February 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

Didn't Episode 3 already have 2 secret levels, Tier Drops and Freeway? Is there a maximum number of maps you can have in an episode? How does the skipping around dodge the E1 issue? It seems strange that this stuff was seemingly hard-coded like it was, like weapon behavior where everyone's TC could only ever reskin existing weapons, not change their behavior because I guess they're all hard-coded as well?

You are correct, it's hard-coded. There is a limit of 11 levels per episode because internally there is no episode and all maps are set in sequence (E2L1 is actually map ID 11, etc). Theorically it would jump to another episode if you could make it past the level 11, but the game normally prevents you from doing that.

The reason why it works differently with a secret ending is simply because the code is different depending of the condition. With a normal nukebutton or sector with tag -1 the game set the next level to the first one if past 11, or in the case of the first episode the limit is 6. For a secret nukebutton the game set the next level to the same you already are in if it's past 11, regardless of the episode. Killing a boss in a Deathmatch game also returns to the first level of the episode. And a sector with -2 has no safety check, so it can jump from one episode to another.

[Robman]

"Episode length problems..."

Nothing some string and 5lb weights won't fix.

[Micky C]

Fox, on 12 February 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

You are correct, it's hard-coded. There is a limit of 11 levels per episode because internally there is no episode and all maps are set in sequence (E2L1 is actually map ID 11, etc). Theorically it would jump to another episode if you could make it past the level 11, but the game normally prevents you from doing that.

What about eduke32's extended episode limit?

[Robman]

Micky C, on 12 February 2015 - 08:04 PM, said:

What about eduke32's extended episode limit?

Nothing some string and 5lb weights didn't fix.

[Fox]

Micky C, on 12 February 2015 - 08:04 PM, said:

What about eduke32's extended episode limit?

It replaced the static value.

#define MAXLEVELS           64

[Zaxtor]

Fox, on 12 February 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

That's Zaxtor for you. The actual order doesn't matter, but that you can avoid it by using a secret nukebutton to the next level.


You are correct, it's hard-coded. There is a limit of 11 levels per episode because internally there is no episode and all maps are set in sequence (E2L1 is actually map ID 11, etc). Theorically it would jump to another episode if you could make it past the level 11, but the game normally prevents you from doing that.

Level placement are normal.
Is the green nuke button I refer to which level it leads you.

[deuxsonic]

Doesn't it have to be a certain palette to work as a secret exit? What if you don't want it green?

Fox, on 12 February 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

That's Zaxtor for you. The actual order doesn't matter, but that you can avoid it by using a secret nukebutton to the next level.


You are correct, it's hard-coded. There is a limit of 11 levels per episode because internally there is no episode and all maps are set in sequence (E2L1 is actually map ID 11, etc). Theorically it would jump to another episode if you could make it past the level 11, but the game normally prevents you from doing that.

The reason why it works differently with a secret ending is simply because the code is different depending of the condition. With a normal nukebutton or sector with tag -1 the game set the next level to the first one if past 11, or in the case of the first episode the limit is 6. For a secret nukebutton the game set the next level to the same you already are in if it's past 11, regardless of the episode. Killing a boss in a Deathmatch game also returns to the first level of the episode. And a sector with -2 has no safety check, so it can jump from one episode to another.

Is there a way to remove the episode menu from the game, say for a mod, and then just have it continue to the next episode automatically so the game appears as 1 long episode?

[Hendricks266]

deuxsonic, on 13 February 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

Is there a way to remove the episode menu from the game, say for a mod, and then just have it continue to the next episode automatically so the game appears as 1 long episode?

There will never be a way to disable the episode menu. As most you could use

definevolumename 0 Campaign
undefinevolume 1
undefinevolume 2

so that you could choose between Campaign and User Map.

[deuxsonic]

Hendricks266, on 13 February 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

There will never be a way to disable the episode menu. As most you could use

definevolumename 0 Campaign
undefinevolume 1
undefinevolume 2

so that you could choose between Campaign and User Map.

Is undefinevolume new with EDuke? I remember some mods such as Nuclear Winter which seemingly blank out episode names, yet there are always 4 episodes to choose from (so the cursor still stops over these "blank" episodes) and if I recall, no way to change this such as having, say 6 episodes or 2 episodes.

[Hendricks266]

I just added it last week.

[Fox]

deuxsonic, on 13 February 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

Is there a way to remove the episode menu from the game, say for a mod, and then just have it continue to the next episode automatically so the game appears as 1 long episode?

You can skip it using currentmenu, but you will loose the User Map option.

[Hendricks266]

Fox, on 13 February 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

You can skip it using EVENT_CHANGEMENU, but you will lose the User Map option.

Fixed.

[deuxsonic]

Example of how to use?

[Fox]

define MENU_MAIN                0
define MENU_EPISODE             100
define MENU_SKILL               110

onevent EVENT_CHANGEMENU
  ifvare RETURN MENU_EPISODE
  {
    ifvare current_menu MENU_SKILL
      setvar RETURN MENU_MAIN
    else
      setvar RETURN MENU_SKILL
  }
endevent

Remember that episode 1 is selected by default. However if you DNSCOTTY to another episode, that one will start...

[deuxsonic]

Fox, on 13 February 2015 - 05:02 PM, said:

define MENU_MAIN                0
define MENU_EPISODE             100
define MENU_SKILL               110

onevent EVENT_CHANGEMENU
  ifvare RETURN MENU_EPISODE
  {
    ifvare current_menu MENU_SKILL
      setvar RETURN MENU_MAIN
    else
      setvar RETURN MENU_SKILL
  }
endevent

Remember that episode 1 is selected by default. However if you DNSCOTTY to another episode, that one will start...

If you were playing episode 2 from starting at E1L1 and working your way to E2L1 and started a new game with this, would it start on episode 2 then?

[Fox]

Yes. If you are jumping episodes, then use this:

define MENU_MAIN                0
define MENU_EPISODE             100
define MENU_SKILL               110

onevent EVENT_CHANGEMENU
  ifvare RETURN MENU_EPISODE
  {
    ifvare current_menu MENU_SKILL
      setvar RETURN MENU_MAIN
    else
    {
      setuserdef .m_level_number 0
      setuserdef .m_volume_number 0
      setvar RETURN MENU_SKILL
    }
  }
endevent

[deuxsonic]

Fox, on 13 February 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

Yes. If you are jumping episodes, then use this:

define MENU_MAIN                0
define MENU_EPISODE             100
define MENU_SKILL               110

onevent EVENT_CHANGEMENU
  ifvare RETURN MENU_EPISODE
  {
    ifvare current_menu MENU_SKILL
      setvar RETURN MENU_MAIN
    else
    {
      setuserdef .m_volume_number 0 // episode ID
      setvar RETURN MENU_SKILL
    }
  }
endevent

Thanks. Where would this code need to go? Any specific CON file?

[Fox]

Anywhere.

[deuxsonic]

define MENU_MAIN                0
define MENU_EPISODE             100
define MENU_SKILL               110

onevent EVENT_CHANGEMENU
  ifvare RETURN MENU_EPISODE
  {
    ifvare current_menu MENU_SKILL
      setvar RETURN MENU_MAIN
    else
    {
      setuserdef .m_volume_number 0 // episode ID
      setvar RETURN MENU_SKILL
    }
  }
endevent

Tried it out, if you're in episode 2 and you start a new game with it, it will start on E1L5. Trying it with episode 3 caused it to just drop back to the main menu. Perhaps it's not actually something that can be done?