[Sanek]

Hi bros!
I'm working on a new EPISODE called "Lunar Apocalypse". I think it will have about 5 levels in it, including the introduciton map, which is almost done. I want to add some kind of a story here, dialogs, sounds and music, new weapons, NPC's and even cutscenes, but without using any Duke Atomic textures and features, to make the overall episode like the sequel of the original "Lunar Apocalypse". I don't mean that I re-create the original levels, I mean that the action in this new episode takes place in the Moon years after the original game's story has ended.

Of course, such kind of a project requires some help. I want to make the maps by myself, but if you knew CON code well (especially to create texts/dialogs) and want to help me with this, you're welcome. I study some of a code myself right now, but I'm not sure that can make a good-working stuff, like the guys who did it for years.

Some screenshots. All, except the last one, is from the "INTROLAP.MAP". Posted to imgur, Commander.















I don't want to set any dates of release now. People say that I'm always rush my projects to release ASAP, so, I want to dedicate more time to this project than usual.

[sergey808a]

Cool! I like Space/Moon maps. I wish you success in work and I'm waiting for the release.

[zykov eddy]

The first and the last screens look good, though they need some shading and polishing. The rest... Not so much. Especially the second one which looks almost empty. Well, it's just a beginning, so I hope everything will be polished by the time of release. I know you're going for a classic vanilla inspired design, but the original E2 maps definitely had more details and a wonderful shading.

Good luck, anyways! Also, I'm curious about con hacks and new weapons.

[Never Forgotten]

I think it looks great, take your time, I had to learn that the hard way also. :3 Keep up the good work.

[DNSKILL5]

The Blake Stone scientist don't really fit in, but the screenshots look great.

[Paul B]

The first impression I got when I saw the screenshots was it reminded me of Half-life type atmosphere. Looks good so far =)

[NightFright]

Yay, somebody dares to create a space episode still! No idea why so many people dislike those space maps, I think their atmosphere is unique. Will definitely keep this one on my radar!

[MetHy]

Considering that not long ago you asked for help to put some textures into DN3D art files, I'm thinking you took the scientists straight from AMC TC and the EDF Soldiers from DNF 2013 mod. It's none of my business but I guess you asked for that? I think the EDF Soldiers art were created by Gambini (based on Duke's sprite sheet), and trust me you don't want to create another "stole my bench" scandal.

[Sanek]

MetHy, on 06 November 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Considering that not long ago you asked for help to put some textures into DN3D art files, I'm thinking you took the scientists straight from AMC TC and the EDF Soldiers from DNF 2013 mod. It's none of my business but I guess you asked for that? I think the EDF Soldiers art were created by Gambini (based on Duke's sprite sheet), and trust me you don't want to create another "stole my bench" scandal.

Yes, scientists straight from AMC TC, but they was originally from old 3d-shooter called Blake Stone. Do you think James asked developers to use them?
EDF soldiers is created for SSTC, also based on Duke's sprite sheet. Moloch leave the community a long time ago, and I don't think that he cares about his Duke stuff at all now.
And I can't understand all that talk about art files.The whole AMC TC is based on the textures and sprites from another games. Like any other big project, like WGRealms 1 & 2.

[zykov eddy]

Adding a line "textures taken from Blake Stone and SSTC" into .txt file would be just fine, I think.

[MetHy]

Sanek, on 06 November 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

Yes, scientists straight from AMC TC, but they was originally from old 3d-shooter called Blake Stone. Do you think James asked developers to use them?
EDF soldiers is created for SSTC, also based on Duke's sprite sheet. Moloch leave the community a long time ago, and I don't think that he cares about his Duke stuff at all now.
And I can't understand all that talk about art files.The whole AMC TC is based on the textures and sprites from another games. Like any other big project, like WGRealms 1 & 2.

I know the scientists are from Blake Stone. I didn't remember those from SST TC, haven't played that in ages sorry.

Anyway, what I meant is: there is a difference between A) ripping textures from commercial game X and converting them to DN3D for your mod; and B ) Taking already ripped & converted textures from DN3D mod X for your own mod Y.

In the first case, you should be crediting the original devs.
In the 2nd case, you should be crediting the original devs, but also ask the modders who did the ripping & converting work, and ask them as well.

This is why you can't compare your texture use with the texture use of SST TC and AMC TC, WGR2. While this does seem like much, it makes a big difference, because your mod is entirely dependant on other modder's previous labour. In the case of SST TC lot's of work went into modifying the Duke sprite sheet to turn him into those soldiers; and even in the case of the Blake Stone scientists, while it may not seem like much, it's actually important in the sense that it seems that you wouldn't have done it yourself (this assumption is based on how your asked on a forum help to put textures in a art file for a previous map not long ago).

This is why imo you should try to ask first, even if it's about a mere texture that were converted without heavy modifying.

Honestly, to avoid all this trouble of asking + crippling the credits page with a hundred of different devs and modders names who were only 'involved' for one texture, sound, or piece of code (I'm assuming you'd do the same for coding and sound); if I were you I'd try to learn to do the work yourself when possible, with the tools available you'll find that it's probably not that hard to rip Blake Stone's scientists; and once you know how to do that you won't only be limited to "borrowing" the work already done by other DN3D modders, but you'll also be able to "borrow" pretty much anything from any game ever, which will give you the advantage of making your mod a little more original rather than being a muddle up of bits and pieces of every DN3D mod made in the past.

Note that this is just an example, I'm sure James wouldn't mind you using the Blake Stone scientist even if you didn't ask or credit him, but you will stumble on someone who's not okay with it at some point.

Honestly I know this is not my business and perhaps I should shut up but I'd just avoid yourself and the community more un-necessary drama. Edit : To be truely honest it also bothered me to see you advertise 'your mod' and to see stuff taken from other mods in half of the screenshots.

P.S.: Of course the better choice would be making your own textures, sound and code. Though this is sadly a hypothetical dream-like way of doing things that is not often the case for many reasons.

[Sanek]

A little update: I'm still work on it, but a little slower than usual. The level #2 is only 10% ready, but I already can say that "Lunar Apocalypse TC" is going to be the most mediocore space episode EVER!!With every typical location possible, but in the double or even triple amount of it!! But it's alright - I don't try to make a masterpiece..

[The Commander]

No Xmas map this year?

[Sanek]

BREAKING:

THIS PROJECT IS CANCELLED.

[Max Payne]

hmm that's sad

[sergey808a]

Sanek, on 12 February 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

BREAKING:

THIS PROJECT IS CANCELLED.

Why? What happend?

[Sanek]

sergey808a, on 12 February 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Why? What happend?

I just thought that I will have the same sutiation that I have with LORCH 3 - when it's almost done, I'll finish it in a hurry and in the end we get terrible content. Also, I run out of ideas, the design is not that good and knowing myself better than everyone else, I thought that I'll better stop it now than have a big flop later.

[Never Forgotten]

Sanek, on 12 February 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

I just thought that I will have the same sutiation that I have with LORCH 3 - when it's almost done, I'll finish it in a hurry and in the end we get terrible content. Also, I run out of ideas, the design is not that good and knowing myself better than everyone else, I thought that I'll better stop it now than have a big flop later.

Here's what I would do, and what I did a while back with Atomic Crisis: Take a break, don't cancel just yet. Give it time, maybe a few months, then go back to it with a fresh look and see if something comes of it. If nothing does, then cancel. No harm no foul, but don't cancel just because you can't come up with ideas, and as for the design, just keep tweaking it until you have what you want. I know the first two maps from Atomic Crisis have gone over many changes in just a few weeks. Don't give it up just yet.

[Micky C]

It is a bit unfortunate but let him do what he wants. The design is perhaps somewhat below average, mostly due to the boxy nature of the rooms, so if he feels he can do better then so be it. Sanek is a very capable mapper and his past map Bridge Between Two Islands has some fantastic design, he's certainly capable of much greater things than shown in those screenshots (not even talking detail really, more conceptual grandness).

Never Forgotten, on 12 February 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

Here's what I would do, and what I did a while back with Atomic Crisis: Take a break, don't cancel just yet. Give it time, maybe a few months, then go back to it with a fresh look and see if something comes of it. If nothing does, then cancel. No harm no foul, but don't cancel just because you can't come up with ideas, and as for the design, just keep tweaking it until you have what you want. I know the first two maps from Atomic Crisis have gone over many changes in just a few weeks. Don't give it up just yet.

I'd still be careful about that if I were you, since you could easily be stuck in the "iteration trap". Where you skills are growing, allowing you to make improvements to your older maps, however there are two problems:
1) Since your skills are constantly improving, you'll feel the consistent need to repeatedly update the map(s) to your latest standards. This results in a HUGE amount of time being spent on the map, while on the other hand given the same amount of time you could have started and finished a new and better map from scratch.
2) Since you started out the maps with a lower mapping skill, there might be some fundamental problems with the core map design that you can't really fix with any amount of tweaking, meaning that after dumping a huge amount of time into the map(s) you still end up with a fundamentally flawed map. (Take the red series for example, the Red 1 remake was fantastic, however the Red 2 update was of noticeably lower quality, but still a very nice map).

While it's a shame that some of Sanek's work here is lost, it's commendable that he's decided to cut his losses and stop this project earlier rather than later. Although he's a talented mapper, it's still possible to fall into an iteration trap, which he has now avoided hence saving himself time in the long run.
Of course I'm basing this on the assumption that Sanek hasn't already made significant progress with this.

I should probably add that I hope Sanek doesn't make a habit out of abandoning projects like this and Lorch 3.

[sergey808a]

Sanek, on 12 February 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

I just thought that I will have the same sutiation that I have with LORCH 3 - when it's almost done, I'll finish it in a hurry and in the end we get terrible content. Also, I run out of ideas, the design is not that good and knowing myself better than everyone else, I thought that I'll better stop it now than have a big flop later.

May you need to do one level instead of five, and all of the ideas put in it?