[Trebor_UK]

Hey guys,

Sorry if this has been discussed somewhere before but I did a quick search and could not find much.

So I heard Megaton is essentially JFDuke reworked and tweaked, and Redux is based on JFSW that was never finished, so what is that based on?

Technically speaking, what are the actual differences between all of these ports/versions?

Megaton, JFDuke, and eDuke32?
SW Redux. JFSW, etc?

Surely eDuke32 would be the best choice as it has the most up to date features and additions? If so, why did they use JFDuke and not eDuke32? JFDuke has not been updated in years, right?

Is there anything they added to Redux/Megaton that is better than eDuke32? Or do those versions use eDuke32 code as well as JFDuke code?

I'm interested in all of this!

[Hendricks266]

Trebor_UK, on 22 July 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

eDuke

EDuke32

Trebor_UK, on 22 July 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

So I heard Megaton is essentially JFDuke reworked and tweaked, and Redux is based on JFSW that was never finished, so what is that based on?

Surely eDuke would be the best choice as it has the most up to date features and additions? If so, why did they use JFDuke and not eDuke? JFDuke has not been updated in years, right?

They chose JFDuke3D over EDuke32 because it is a simpler codebase. For SW they didn't have much choice, and choosing JFDuke3D probably saved them time with JFSW.

JonoF has not released compiled Windows binaries of his stuff since 2005, but he has continued work on them via his public GitHub repositories:

https://github.com/jonof/jfbuild
https://github.com/jonof/jfaudiolib
https://github.com/jonof/jfmact
https://github.com/jonof/jfduke3d
https://github.com/jonof/jfsw

Trebor_UK, on 22 July 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

Is there anything they added to Redux/Megaton that is better than eDuke?

Steamworks integration (achievements, etc).

Megaton's multiplayer functions, which is also an advantage (for now). Ours should be better once it's finished, but it's been close to five years.

Trebor_UK, on 22 July 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

Or do those versions use eDuke code as well as JFDuke code?

They've used bits and pieces of EDuke32 improvements.

[Lunick]

I'd say the controller support is better than EDuke32's now as well but everything else in the above post is spot on.

[Trebor_UK]

Hendricks420, on 22 July 2014 - 03:51 AM, said:

EDuke32


They chose JFDuke3D over EDuke32 because it is a simpler codebase. For SW they didn't have much choice, and choosing JFDuke3D probably saved them time with JFSW.

JonoF has not released compiled Windows binaries of his stuff since 2005, but he has continued work on them via his public GitHub repositories:

https://github.com/jonof/jfbuild
https://github.com/jonof/jfaudiolib
https://github.com/jonof/jfmact
https://github.com/jonof/jfduke3d
https://github.com/jonof/jfsw


Steamworks integration (achievements, etc).

Megaton's multiplayer functions, which is also an advantage (for now). Ours should be better once it's finished, but it's been close to five years.


They've used bits and pieces of EDuke32 improvements.

I was being lazy with typing eDuke32.
Nice post, though. Thanks! What improvements did they use?

Also: Anyone know if SWRedux is getting the MP treatment anytime soon?

[Lunick]

Trebor_UK, on 22 July 2014 - 04:25 AM, said:

Also: Anyone know if SWRedux is getting the MP treatment anytime soon?

I know they could just port the Megaton code but, I'm pretty sure Shadow Warrior had at least one extra gamemode. As well as JFSW never having finished Multiplayer code and the source code for Shadow Warrior not having any (I think if all?) parts of multiplayer in it.

[Hendricks266]

We found v1.2 final source code in the 3DR archives, so it's just a matter of effort.

[Lunick]

I'd have to wonder why they didn't upload that version, I guess they misplaced it or something...

[Hendricks266]

Perhaps they didn't know how to crack pkcrypto and neither Jim nor Frank remembered the password. Or they didn't bother looking on the CDs it came from.

[Micky C]

Sweet, I'd love to play some more SW COOP, and try some WangBang for the first time.

Wonder if the final Duke 3D source can be found and we can finally get the original demos working after all those years.

[Lunick]

Micky C, on 22 July 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

Sweet, I'd love to play some more SW COOP...

With me?

[DNSKILL5]

Micky C, on 22 July 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

...and we can finally get the original demos working after all those years.

That'd be so cool

[MetHy]

I remember playing some SW DM a few years ago, but I don't remember the sourceport me and Geoffrey used.

I have to say that SW was the best FPS DM i have played in my entire life, it's just incredibily fun, and it's a shame that the Steam version doesn't support it. And I mean, I did play tons of DN3D DM but also TONS of UT and Q3A and quite a little of other FPS too, but SW is the best I've experienced.

Some old SW DM screenshots :
http://i101.photobuc...arrior/dm10.jpg (check that cookie msg appearing JUST as I miss with my rocket of only a few inches!)
http://i101.photobuc...Warrior/dm9.jpg
http://i101.photobuc...Warrior/dm8.jpg
http://i101.photobuc...Warrior/dm4.jpg
http://i101.photobuc...Warrior/dm6.jpg


As for differences between Megaton and EDuke32 ; well the most obvious one to me are
- only 1 rendered, in 32bit for Megaton ; contrary to EDuke32 which allows playing with the original 8bit look
- Megaton doesn't support the original midi musics ; mandatory ogg files conversions instead
- Megaton changed menus, text, hud, etc to be "high res"
But there is also plenty of other small differences. For instance, sprites placed on moving sectors will jiggle in Megaton. Also plenty of smal things arel EDuke32-only (whether they are "features" or not) .

[Micky C]

I would argue that the 3 biggest differences are:
1) 3 different renderers (including original and super-modern) as opposed to 1.
2) Mega enhanced scripting capability allowing for pretty sophisticated mods and TCs that will never play on Megaton.
3) TROR, although this is a smaller point than the other 2.

Other things like megaton's improved user interface (menus) and multiplayer are things that eduke will catch up with eventually.

[Robman]

So uh, I know I'm sounding like a broken record and SWP is a bad word here because you guys didn't create it but SWP 4.3.2 and up works great 1-8 player online.

Give ProAsm some love, he worked hard on SWP.

all of this " oh I'd love to play sw online it's too bad there is no way" stuff is driving me mental.

On top of all of this, the original dos version multiplayer stills works fine aswell !

[Corvin]

whats a mega-ton?

[Trebor_UK]

Has Termit mentioned anything about Redux getting mp?

[MetHy]

Robman, on 22 July 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

So uh, I know I'm sounding like a broken record and SWP is a bad word here because you guys didn't create it but SWP 4.3.2 and up works great 1-8 player online.

Yeah that's probably what I used years ago and it worked great.

[NightFright]

Widescreen support is another cool feature of Megaton, even though I am unsure how it's realized since I didn't take a look a the files recently.

I was actually wondering if the widescreen sprites for the HUD (firstperson view) weapons are implemented via altered tile entries in duke3d.grp of the Megaton Edition or in a different way. I'd like to find out if it's possible to create a small patch which just delivers those widescreen sprites for those who use a standalone groupfile + EDuke32 (like myself). Can't be many sprites, anyway - I think affected weapons are pistol, shotgun (unsure), RPG and possibly Shrinker/Expander.

[TerminX]

NightFright, on 30 July 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

Widescreen support is another cool feature of Megaton, even though I am unsure how it's realized since I didn't take a look a the files recently.

I was actually wondering if the widescreen sprites for the HUD (firstperson view) weapons are implemented via altered tile entries in duke3d.grp of the Megaton Edition or in a different way. I'd like to find out if it's possible to create a small patch which just delivers those widescreen sprites for those who use a standalone groupfile + EDuke32 (like myself). Can't be many sprites, anyway - I think affected weapons are pistol, shotgun (unsure), RPG and possibly Shrinker/Expander.

It was implemented by patching the tilefromtexture functionality from EDuke32 into Megaton.

[NightFright]

Ah, so they were putting the widescreen replacements externally while keeping actual groupfile untouched. Makes sense (and this way, it's also easier to reproduce/recreate if you have the patch files). ^^

[Fox]

TerminX, on 30 July 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

It was implemented by patching the tilefromtexture functionality from EDuke32 into Megaton.

It does have that? Hmm, maybe I should get a copy of Megaton so at least I know what features it has.

[LeoD]

TerminX, on 30 July 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

It was implemented by patching the tilefromtexture functionality from EDuke32 into Megaton.

Is that a 'recent' addition? IIRC that didn't work when I checked in May 2013.

[Hendricks266]

NightFright, on 30 July 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

Widescreen support is another cool feature of Megaton, even though I am unsure how it's realized since I didn't take a look a the files recently.

Widescreen in Megaton is an anti-feature because it is vert-minus. It crops the top and bottom of the screen. EDuke32's is horiz-plus.

NightFright, on 30 July 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

I was actually wondering if the widescreen sprites for the HUD (firstperson view) weapons are implemented via altered tile entries in duke3d.grp of the Megaton Edition or in a different way. I'd like to find out if it's possible to create a small patch which just delivers those widescreen sprites for those who use a standalone groupfile + EDuke32 (like myself). Can't be many sprites, anyway - I think affected weapons are pistol, shotgun (unsure), RPG and possibly Shrinker/Expander.

http://hendricks266....een_weapons.zip

This file does not include permission for repackaging or redistribution.

Fox, on 30 July 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

It does have that? Hmm, maybe I should get a copy of Megaton so at least I know what features it has.

It has tilefromtexture, but I did not implement animtilerange or dummytile(range).

LeoD, on 30 July 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

Is that a 'recent' addition? IIRC that didn't work when I checked in May 2013.

I submitted the patch later that summer, in July.

[NightFright]

Actually, when checking now, I am not even sure if you desperately need such a patch for EDuke32. Couldn't see any sprites being cut off in widescreen without these external graphics, unless I have tomatoes on my eyes or didn't check thoroughly enough. Is EDuke32 doing alignment corrections for HUD sprites already?

[NightFright]

Disregard, double post.

[TerminX]

EDuke32 does alignment corrections to hide that some tiles are cut off, yeah.

[NightFright]

Pretty cool. This actually completely eliminates the requirement of having these replacement graphics, at least if you use EDuke32. I wonder why they didn't just put that into Megaton as well, would have saved them the effort to mess around with original tiles in the first place. ^^

[Hendricks266]

NightFright, on 31 July 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

I wonder why they didn't just put that into Megaton as well, would have saved them the effort to mess around with original tiles in the first place.

They did originally. (That's why the pistol was way to the right in one of Lunick's original screenshots from over a year ago, before they realized that only the reload frames needed it.)

For Redux, the weapons that suffered from a similar issue looked really bad when pinned to the sides of the screen. Particularly the sword, but also the riotgun and a few pixels on the shuriken arm.

Jimmy provided the art; I provided the def code with proper offsets and the tilefromtexture patch.

Since the fixed SW weapons looked so much better, they asked the same favor for Duke 3D (knuckle crack, pistol reload, RPG, freezer, shrinker, expander, keycard hand) and Caribbean (knuckle crack, water pistol reload, coconut launcher, ice maker, super soak 'em, credit card hand).

And it looks better than before.

[Lunick]

Well, the RPG looks kinda funny when firing since the rocket doesn't look like it is coming from the RPG itself but I use Jimmy's awesome sprites with EDuke32 anyway