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Mods/TCs made from 100% original art assets

User is offline   MrFlibble 

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#1

Just wondering, are there any Duke3D mods (or rather, total conversions) that are completely made of original art, effectively being stand-alone games (like Harmony, Chex Quest or Freedoom are on the id Tech 1 engine)? I'm asking this because it's not always immediately obvious if the art is original or taken from elsewhere. For example, I had the impression that the Imagination World TC uses original art only but some screenshots definitely show textures from Duke3D.
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User is online   Gambini 

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#2

Quote

I had the impression that the Imagination World TC uses original art only but some screenshots definitely show textures from Duke3D.


Judging by the headers of the mod: Not only Duke3d but also Tekwar and those guns remind me some game I canīt remember itīs name now.

So, my best guest is that no, there arenīt TCs for Duke that use 100% original art.

My maps

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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#3

Absolute closest thing I can think of is Zombie Crisis, however it's textures are based off of freeware textures from some website I can't remember. Geoffrey standardized all the art into a different style, however.
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User is online   Mblackwell 

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#4

View PostGambini, on 07 October 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Judging by the headers of the mod: Not only Duke3d but also Tekwar and those guns remind me some game I canīt remember itīs name now.

So, my best guest is that no, there arenīt TCs for Duke that use 100% original art.


http://forums.duke4....57-top-shooter/ :P

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User is online   Gambini 

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#5

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 07 October 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Absolute closest thing I can think of is Zombie Crisis, however it's textures are based off of freeware textures from some website I can't remember. Geoffrey standardized all the art into a different style, however.


AFAIK he used CGTextures. Itīs a site with well taken pictures of things that can be used as textures. Thatīs original art in my book. So yeah that may be the only example we got!

View PostMblackwell, on 08 October 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:



I see Duke tiles all over!

My maps

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User is online   Mblackwell 

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#6

View PostGambini, on 08 October 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

AFAIK he used CGTextures. It´s a site with well taken pictures of things that can be used as textures. That´s original art in my book. So yeah that may be the only example we got!



I see Duke tiles all over!


Really? It's all new art, sounds, and code I did myself over a weekend, and doesn't use any duke assets at all (and only requires EDuke32 to run) so I doubt it. :P

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User is online   Gambini 

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#7

It may be from a previous build then, but when I clicked the images to enlarge, this was in the sidescroll list:

http://imageshack.us...13/duke0002.jpg

edit: removed image to prevent confusions.

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This post has been edited by Gambini: 08 October 2012 - 09:51 AM

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User is online   Mblackwell 

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#8

Yeah those are (unreleased) beta shots. The ones in the thread are from the final release. Not sure why you'd think otherwise. You should probably play the thing.

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User is offline   Jinroh 

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#9

View PostGambini, on 08 October 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

It may be from a previous build then, but when I clicked the images to enlarge, this was in the sidescroll list:

Posted Image


Somehow I missed the release of this one, and for a second there I had a twinge of excitement as I saw what I perceived as a new Macross TC. xD

"So long HRP, bring on Duke "NextGen" :3
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User is online   Mblackwell 

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#10

for posterity this is the released version (screen from thread):

Posted Image

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User is offline   sedition 

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#11

For our Brute Force TC we are trying to use only original art/textures (mostly ripped from other games and from different websites).
But still there are some textures from Duke3D in use, which I couldn't replace with any other equivalent stuff (stuff like lights, some doors, etc.).
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

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#12

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 07 October 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Absolute closest thing I can think of is Zombie Crisis, however it's textures are based off of freeware textures from some website I can't remember. Geoffrey standardized all the art into a different style, however.

Thanks! I also think Sonic the Hedgehog 3D uses original assets, but they probably come from a Sonic game (bot sure about that).

View Postsedition, on 08 October 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

For our Brute Force TC we are trying to use only original art/textures (mostly ripped from other games and from different websites).

TBH I'm a bit confused about the "original" and "ripped from other games" in one sentence. By "original" I meant that the assets are made by the authors of the mod/TC (or come from public domain), not just taken from somewhere else as opposed to the original Duke3D art.
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User is offline   The Commander 

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#13

In Duke Nukem Red Alert I was/am?(fix the MP!) working on I replaced at least 90-95% of the Duke tiles with others from various assets not used from other Duke mods.

Posted Image

Posted Image

http://forums.duke4....ukem-red-alert/

Posted Image
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#14

View PostMrFlibble, on 08 October 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:


TBH I'm a bit confused about the "original" and "ripped from other games" in one sentence. By "original" I meant that the assets are made by the authors of the mod/TC (or come from public domain), not just taken from somewhere else as opposed to the original Duke3D art.


That's what I thought and was surprised to see all these people coming up with mods that have tons of ripped content as if that counted as "original".

Btw, you mentioned IW but I'd say something like 99% of the non-Duke assets are not original.

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User is offline   Geoffrey 

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#15

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 07 October 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Absolute closest thing I can think of is Zombie Crisis, however it's textures are based off of freeware textures from some website I can't remember. Geoffrey standardized all the art into a different style, however.


The zombies, weapons, music, and probably more stuff I can't remember right now, are all from other games and mods though. What about speedtrax racing? As far as I can remember it was mostly original art - or maybe they were ripping from racing games I hadn't seen before.

http://msdn.duke4.net/revspeedtrax.php

Looking at the screenshots again I doubt it's original, actually.

This post has been edited by Geoffrey: 10 October 2012 - 10:32 AM

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User is offline   zykov eddy 

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#16

Inferno 3D is made of 99% original art
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User is offline   Geoffrey 

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#17

View Postzykov eddy, on 10 October 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Inferno 3D is made of 99% original art


I forgot about that one - that mod is the absolute coolest :)
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

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#18

View PostCody, on 10 October 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

In Duke Nukem Red Alert I was/am?(fix the MP!) working on I replaced at least 90-95% of the Duke tiles with others from various assets not used from other Duke mods.

Whoah, that looks very impressive! I remember checking out a very old beta of the project (given that it was the same thing and not some other Red Alert-themed TC), in its current state it looks very, very impressive!

View Postzykov eddy, on 10 October 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Inferno 3D is made of 99% original art

Nice, thanks for pointing that out!

View PostGeoffrey, on 10 October 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

The zombies, weapons, music, and probably more stuff I can't remember right now, are all from other games and mods though. What about speedtrax racing? As far as I can remember it was mostly original art - or maybe they were ripping from racing games I hadn't seen before.

http://msdn.duke4.net/revspeedtrax.php

Looking at the screenshots again I doubt it's original, actually.

The project is still quite unusual :)
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User is offline   The Commander 

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#19

View PostMrFlibble, on 11 October 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Whoah, that looks very impressive! I remember checking out a very old beta of the project (given that it was the same thing and not some other Red Alert-themed TC), in its current state it looks very, very impressive!

If you want to play a version that actually works and is pretty much where all my resources came from then download this.

http://www.moddb.com...t-a-path-beyond



Posted Image

This post has been edited by Cody: 11 October 2012 - 12:49 PM

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User is offline   MrFlibble 

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#20

Yeah, I know about A Path Beyond but making a similar TC for Duke3D is something much more impressive IMO (with all due respect to the wonderful job done by the APB team, that is :)).
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User is offline   zZaRDoZz 

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#21

View PostMrFlibble, on 07 October 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Just wondering, are there any Duke3D mods (or rather, total conversions) that are completely made of original art, effectively being stand-alone games (like Harmony, Chex Quest or Freedoom are on the id Tech 1 engine)? I'm asking this because it's not always immediately obvious if the art is original or taken from elsewhere. For example, I had the impression that the Imagination World TC uses original art only but some screenshots definitely show textures from Duke3D.


Something like a "Free-git-a-grip" file, like the freedoom Iwad, is a great idea. I'm not sure as to the legalities of it though.

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User is offline   Jinroh 

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#22

View PostMrFlibble, on 07 October 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Just wondering, are there any Duke3D mods (or rather, total conversions) that are completely made of original art, effectively being stand-alone games (like Harmony, Chex Quest or Freedoom are on the id Tech 1 engine)?

I forgot all about it until I thought of FreeDoom, but does anyone remember Leileilol was working on Dave 3D and Ling as well to make freeware GRPs for Duke3D and Shadow Warrior.

3D Realms didn't like it though so they put the kaibash on that. There hasn't been any interest in completing it.

http://www.moddb.com/games/dave-3d



"So long HRP, bring on Duke "NextGen" :3

This post has been edited by Jinroh: 31 October 2012 - 06:51 AM

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User is offline   Cage 

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#23

Making a project with custom art - and by that I mean not just replacing stuff from Duke, but creating some actual made from scratch content - is something I'd like to do one day. However that requires time that I don't have :( at least currently - I'm working on two big DOOM projects ATM (Hacx 2.0 and a megawad with custom texture set and arsenal.

I'm working on something for Duke currently but there won't be too much of scratch content (Mainly RedneckRampage rips and a lot of fotosourced textures) but it will be Duke-free.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

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#24

There was no reason 3DR could have stopped production of something like Dave3D other than to be dicks.
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User is offline   zZaRDoZz 

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#25

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 31 October 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

There was no reason 3DR could have stopped production of something like Dave3D other than to be dicks.

Maybe, then again, maybe not. If there were someway that our hypothetical grip file could work with most tcs but not have end users ripping retail assets out of the duke3d demo to make something close to the retail game, they might relent. That's the problem with freedoom. If I wanted to turn it into doom, I just about could. Maybe the secret is in the licensing. The file would be "free" to use and modify, but the end user would have to sign to the effect of promising not to screw 3DR over as far as art assets. You couldn't stop it technically, but you could make it a big no- no community wise.

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User is offline   t800 

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#26

Concept of "FreeDuke" looks nice in theory but it lacks few things in practice.
When you compare possibilty of making free Doom WAD and Duke 3D GRP you get one problem - art assets. Replacing Doom textures and sprites with scratch new and original ones is much easier then in Duke 3D. Just compare library of textures and sprites from both of them. Not only Duke 3D has much more art, Doom mostly consists of generic sci-fi, hi-tech space bases and hell-medieval themes and it has just basic sprite decorations like torches and hanging corpses. This is much more easier to replace with original ones then Duke 3D ones. Duke has huge variety of different themes in its art (city, nature, space, military, etc...). It also relies much more on sprite decorations (try to imagine how many decoration sprites Duke has {furniture, glasses, statues, water fountains, vegetation, etc...}
You have to find fine balance between making replacement to all these decorations authentic (so user maps will be visually compatible with it) and not making them too similar to former ones mady by 3D Realms.
Second problems lies in nature of user maps. Lets look at most Doom user maps - their essence mostly lies not in sprite work or textures but in architecture and layout. On other hand Duke 3D user maps rely much more on different themes of textures precisely used to create different enviroments and use many sprite decorations to add atmosphere.
IMHO this makes creating "Freeduke" much more difficult then "Freedoom" in terms of making it truly visually compatible with all its mods and usermaps.

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This post has been edited by t800: 01 November 2012 - 03:30 AM

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User is offline   MrFlibble 

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#27

View PostJinroh, on 31 October 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

I forgot all about it until I thought of FreeDoom, but does anyone remember Leileilol was working on Dave 3D and Ling as well to make freeware GRPs for Duke3D and Shadow Warrior.

3D Realms didn't like it though so they put the kaibash on that. There hasn't been any interest in completing it.

http://www.moddb.com/games/dave-3d



Wow, I never knew about this project before. It's a shame the official guys put it down :(

View Postt800, on 01 November 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

When you compare possibilty of making free Doom WAD and Duke 3D GRP you get one problem - art assets. Replacing Doom textures and sprites with scratch new and original ones is much easier then in Duke 3D. Just compare library of textures and sprites from both of them. Not only Duke 3D has much more art, Doom mostly consists of generic sci-fi, hi-tech space bases and hell-medieval themes and it has just basic sprite decorations like torches and hanging corpses. This is much more easier to replace with original ones then Duke 3D ones. Duke has huge variety of different themes in its art (city, nature, space, military, etc...). It also relies much more on sprite decorations (try to imagine how many decoration sprites Duke has {furniture, glasses, statues, water fountains, vegetation, etc...}
You have to find fine balance between making replacement to all these decorations authentic (so user maps will be visually compatible with it) and not making them too similar to former ones mady by 3D Realms.
Second problems lies in nature of user maps. Lets look at most Doom user maps - their essence mostly lies not in sprite work or textures but in architecture and layout. On other hand Duke 3D user maps rely much more on different themes of textures precisely used to create different enviroments and use many sprite decorations to add atmosphere.
IMHO this makes creating "Freeduke" much more difficult then "Freedoom" in terms of making it truly visually compatible with all its mods and usermaps.

That's certainly a vary valid point. Duke3D belongs to another generation of 2.5D FPS games, and it is much more complex both in terms of original assets and custom game design. Still, I believe it would not have been entirely impossible if people who wanted it to be done had enough free time to spend on the project.
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