[JohnClay]

BTW people can also discuss this issue in Wikipedia.... maybe particularly good communicators/writers could add info about the latest issues to the main article.......

http://en.wikipedia....em_3D:_Reloaded

If they edit out your comments you could edit them back in, though you need to provide proof for some of the things... maybe you could link to a google cache of sites or something.

[JohnClay]

I wonder if the original youtube video has been deleted? The most views for one of the reloaded/nextgen videos is 48,000.... I thought the original would be a few hundred thousand views or maybe a million since it appeared in lots of news stories in the internet....

From the old deletion discussion....
http://en.wikipedia....em_3D:_Reloaded

"Fan-made Duke Nukem: Next Gen gets OK"
http://www.news.com....0-1225939006130
It contains the youtube video:

"This video has been removed by the user. Sorry about that."

I wonder if Gearbox specifically forced Fresch to remove that video...
He's still got a couple of DNR videos on his channel....
http://www.youtube.c...m?feature=watch

[Tea Monster]

Fresch was given a LICENCE from Gearbox to make an official Duke game. That means that GBX's name was on the project. That means that GBX owns your ass and what you make for the project. They call the shots. Reloaded was NOT 'just a mod'.

GBX told him straight that they would get back to him when all the DLC was released. How many times have you seen a member of 2K, or any other publisher, trumpeting on about the next game in a series when the current one is in a release cycle? How many times have you seen a Game dev marketing a game and say in an interview on Shacknews "Yeah, of course this title is pretty good, but we do much better in our next one, wait for that!". GBX told Fresch and his team to keep a lid on Reloaded as they were trying to sell DNF and they didn't want the spotlight to shift to another project in the middle of a marketing campaign. For whatever reason, they just couldn't. Instead of keeping quiet it was "HELP HELP WE'RE BEING GAGGED!!!" as loudly and to as many people as would listen.

How many times do you see 2K Elizabeth PMing pre-release builds of the next Bioshock game to her friends on the forum? How many times do you see members of the team of ANY game chit-chatting on the forum about daily progress and details of the production? It dosen't happen - if it does, it's the job of the publisher to bring the hammer down. GBX imposed a media blackout and Interceptor just ignored them completely. One member of the team would be saying they can't say anything, and another would be here dishing out screenshots - it was a mess.

All through this, GBX have behaved like a game publisher.

All through this Fresch and company have behaved like fan-boys.

Would Reloaded have been eventually released? I don't know. I'm thinking it would rely more on the quality of the product rather than any 'evil agenda' of Gearbox.

[JohnClay]

Tea Monster, on 13 February 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

....All through this, GBX have behaved like a game publisher....

What kind of game publisher doesn't give straight answers to questions - just saying things like "wait and see" to questions like there being mod tools, and the future of a game that dozens of people are working on?
Why is there so much secrecy? In the past they locked some threads about DNR but today they deleted some threads...
I remember there being a thread that was locked with the last reply by Damien_Azreal.... in that thread other people mentioned that thread(s) had been deleted that day. I wish I could quote him exactly but Damien_Azreal said something like people would get bans or infractions if they say something disrespectful, spiteful or negative about Gearbox and its affiliates. Yes he said people can't say anything "negative"!!!
What kind of game publisher threatens to ban or penalise people for merely saying something "negative" on their public forums? Also they did ban some people. What kind of game publisher forces people that have a license with them to delete their original youtube video that many news websites are still linking to? (I assume Fresch was pressured/forced). What kind of game publisher gets the blogs from a person's website removed? etc, etc.... They're out of control.

His blog was an attempt to explain what was going on.... instead of pointing out all of the problems with his version of events, Gearbox repeatedly just shuts down all discussion. More than that they try to remove all traces of any disagreements, etc, (e.g. his blog, forum posts, etc). That is not mature behaviour.

[----]

Tea Monster, on 13 February 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

GBX told him straight that they would get back to him when all the DLC was released.

Yes and No.

I was in the dev channel back then. And GBX first said that media can be released in spring 2011. And later it constantly became what was described in the blog entry:

GBX: "We will get back to you in a few days." (paraphrased)
GBX: "We will tell you next week." (paraphrased)

etc...

of course, they never called or written back by they time they said so, even when the whole team waited for two weeks instead of one.

They should have been straight and honest from the beginning, IMHO.

The whole "we will tell you next week" by GBX led to the whole "There will be news about Reloaded soon" by Interceptor.


I am fully aware of Reloaded having it's problems and the mistakes by Interceptor. But GBX' behavior was simply getting the hopes up high for the team and the public and then leading to huge disappointments on all sides, because they never did what they said they would do.

[JohnClay]

fuegerstef:

Quote

My free games, free stuff and also news about DN3DR: http://www.fuegerstef.com

What happened to your domain? This url is mentioned on google a bit but the domain doesn't seem to work any more....

[----]

JohnClay, on 13 February 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

fuegerstef:

What happened to your domain? This url is mentioned on google a bit but the domain doesn't seem to work any more....

I decided to not renew it ... editing my sig now.

[JohnClay]

Tea Monster, on 13 February 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

.....Instead of keeping quiet it was "HELP HELP WE'RE BEING GAGGED!!!" as loudly and to as many people as would listen....

From the official DNR website:
http://www.dukenukemreloaded.com/

Quote

16-August-2011
Just as you are waiting for the next official news about Duke Nukem Reloaded, we are waiting for Gearbox Software to allow us to release what we have been working on......Once Gearbox Software decides, that it's time for Duke Nukem Reloaded to be unleashed, you will know.

We are ready! We are just waiting for the "Go!"

Quote

19-September-2011 - some kind of podcast

Quote

24-September-2011
Public Announcement
After careful consideration of the progress and direction of the project, Interceptor Entertainment has decided to finish Duke Nukem: Reloaded at a future date that is yet to be determined.

Interceptor Entertainment still has the good will and non commercial license provided to us to use the Duke Nukem brand for our creative ambitions. We hope to resume that work again when the time is right.

In the interim, please know that the praise and support we received for our efforts has been both overwhelming and appreciated. Interceptor Entertainment looks forward to revisiting the DNR project in the future, along with several other new, creative pursuits. Our fans can rest assured: We are going to focus our efforts on exciting endeavors and we welcome the challenges that await us!

With sincere gratitude to our fans for their incredible support,
Interceptor Entertainment

It sounded like they were keeping quiet to me (initially) rather than them saying "HELP HELP WE'RE BEING GAGGED!!!" as loudly and to as many people as would listen". I thought you'd want to speak accurately about things...

Quote

GBX imposed a media blackout and Interceptor just ignored them completely

The only action Interceptor did to ignore the media blackout was Fresch releasing his latest blog entries... and then he removed every single blog entry he had... "just ignored them completely"? You keep on exaggerating!

[Tea Monster]

Screens and media were being released continuously on this forum during that whole phase.

[----]

Tea Monster, on 13 February 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

Screens and media were being released continuously on this forum during that whole phase.

Most of them were leaked though.

EDIT: I just went through the threads. All of them were leaked or images from the website which were there anyways (background images, etc...).

[Mad Max RW]

Tea Monster, on 13 February 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

All through this Fresch and company have behaved like fan-boys.

They were working full time without pay for over a year. I'm surprised they stuck it out that long, especially not knowing if all their work would end up as a big waste. Lots of games are canceled, but at least the workers get paid for their time. And when they aren't paid lawsuits happen. Too bad fresch didn't have a smart lawyer with him when he signed over his life to Gearbox. They could have sucked a few million bucks out of Pitchford's wallet.

[----]

Mad Max RW, on 13 February 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

I'm surprised they stuck it out that long, especially not knowing if all their work would end up as a big waste of time.

False promises by GBX.

In the beginning GBX said that they will be able to release media at time X.

Later it was postponed, postponed and postponed. (Please note, I am talking about media, like screenshots, etc ... not a working MP beta which was clear to be out some time after the final DLC, so basically around now)

And then, when Fred asked GBX to give an honest answer if GBX ever planned to allow a media release at all, GBX said "We cannot answer you that question." <- this is the worst part, IMHO.
In the next sentence GBX finally was honest by saying that they don'T know if the game will ever be allowed to be released.

[Kathy]

Tea Monster, on 13 February 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

Screens and media were being released continuously on this forum during that whole phase.

Yeah, right. Most of the animosity towards DNR on this forums was because of lack of proof aside from several screenshots before signing with Gearbox. And now you're saying that media was released continuously.

[Ronin]

Helel, on 13 February 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

Yeah, right. Most of the animosity towards DNR on this forums was because of lack of proof aside from several screenshots before signing with Gearbox. And now you're saying that media was released continuously.

That and that we are sick of having our hope crushed, such a shame that such a great ip has been handled so badly by everyone who get their hands on it. We should have had many great Duke games since Duke 3D, what a disaster.

[ReaperMan]

Helel, on 13 February 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

Yeah, right. Most of the animosity towards DNR on this forums was because of lack of proof aside from several screenshots before signing with Gearbox. And now you're saying that media was released continuously.

Well i do believe TX got his hands on a build of it.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

ReaperMan, on 13 February 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

Well i do believe TX got his hands on a build of it.

And if I remember correctly, he had some very strong feelings about it that fresch might not have approved of.

[ReaperMan]

True.

[Jimmy]

Tea Monster, on 13 February 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

Fresch was given a LICENCE from Gearbox to make an official Duke game. That means that GBX's name was on the project. That means that GBX owns your ass and what you make for the project. They call the shots. Reloaded was NOT 'just a mod'.

GBX told him straight that they would get back to him when all the DLC was released. How many times have you seen a member of 2K, or any other publisher, trumpeting on about the next game in a series when the current one is in a release cycle? How many times have you seen a Game dev marketing a game and say in an interview on Shacknews "Yeah, of course this title is pretty good, but we do much better in our next one, wait for that!". GBX told Fresch and his team to keep a lid on Reloaded as they were trying to sell DNF and they didn't want the spotlight to shift to another project in the middle of a marketing campaign. For whatever reason, they just couldn't. Instead of keeping quiet it was "HELP HELP WE'RE BEING GAGGED!!!" as loudly and to as many people as would listen.

How many times do you see 2K Elizabeth PMing pre-release builds of the next Bioshock game to her friends on the forum? How many times do you see members of the team of ANY game chit-chatting on the forum about daily progress and details of the production? It dosen't happen - if it does, it's the job of the publisher to bring the hammer down. GBX imposed a media blackout and Interceptor just ignored them completely. One member of the team would be saying they can't say anything, and another would be here dishing out screenshots - it was a mess.

All through this, GBX have behaved like a game publisher.

All through this Fresch and company have behaved like fan-boys.

Would Reloaded have been eventually released? I don't know. I'm thinking it would rely more on the quality of the product rather than any 'evil agenda' of Gearbox.

Reposting for Great Justice! Fresch didn't know what the hell he was doing.

[MusicallyInspired]

As was evidenced by his blog, Gearbox was blown away by the DNR demo and that was the very problem. That sounds like evil agenda to me.

[thelegend4ever]

Well, since TX said the version he had was a mess (and even offered Fresch he'd tell who sent him said beta in exchange for a new one...which he apparently declined. Hmmm), I really doubt GBX was "blown away" in terms of it being a good game. Maybe it was the complete opposite...hence why they backed out.

[thatguy]

What really sucks was that I didn't get a chance to see all that was done. Just a few shots. Now its all lost to GBX hell.

Honestly, I want this to get more attention from the public. I loved Gearbox. I've worked with them a couple of times and respect what they have done in both work ethics and direction......What i've seen here is completely disgusting. To lie to someone by giving them false hope then ripping them to shreds.

Here is some steak, enjoy it because its on the house. An hour later they punch you in the stomach and ask you to throw it all up into a dog bowl for the german shepards to eat.

I respect companies that love the community and treat them like adults. Valve is still up there for continuing to benefit fans, future developers and artists. GBX...just shits on them. Then again, maybe it was the leadership. I just wish that maybe GBX would ask that the project receives new management and not shut it down. Who knows. I just wish this didn't end.

[MusicallyInspired]

It seems to me that if it was the exact opposite GBX wouldn't really care. And in light of the final phone conversation that was made, it further strengthens that belief.

Now that it's all over with I'm curious to know specifics on exactly what TX thought was wrong with it.

[----]

All I can say is that I played a great session in an August or September build of the unfinished Hollywood Holocaust remake.

Yes it was unfinished and not all weapons were working. But it felt more stable in netcode to me than DNF ever did (well, that's because of the reliadble UDK powering it). We were players from all over the world on one dedicated server (that means also a dedicated machine running the dedicated software). And although I played with a ping of 194 (or 196, cannot remember) it was stable and I enjoyed it a lot after I got used to the high ping. I also played some DNF multiplayer. But it wasn't as fun as that long match in DN3DR.
I also breifly ran through a horde mode map with 20 Dukes running after me (pigcops weren't fully animated then).

That was around the time DN3DR got put on hold a few months ago. Then I can tell you that I was one of those criticizing a lot (but constructively) in the maps and about the game. But I know that by now it would probably be 2 complete maps and all weapons working, because that was what Interceptor aimed at in the end. Making it work by the beginning of 2012 when Interceptor thought the game was allowed to be released.

@Musically Inspired:
I think that TX said that the build was nowhere near as finished as Interceptor said it was. (TX, please correct me if I am wrong, I only speak from my memory). His second point was that the code was very unfinished and he and a few others pointed out that only having one dedicated coder was the reason for that. IIRC he said that the graphics were good.

[TerminX]

What happened with the alpha version I had was this:

I posted what I thought of it, fresch messaged me and claimed I had an old version and asked who sent it to me (even though all of the file dates were from just a few days before I posted about it), I told him I thought he was full of crap for that reason but that I would reveal where I got it in exchange for a new build that had all the problems I mentioned fixed... since he said he knew it was an old build based on me experiencing those problems, one can reasonably assume he was also saying there was a newer one in which they were fixed.

He never replied. Keep in mind this was a while after fresch had claimed they were "90% finished" with a playable multiplayer beta.

Based on things like the bullshit interviews with Randy Pitchford from before DNF was released where he straight up lied by saying things to the effect of "DNF is non-linear" and "DNF has secret levels", how they run their forums, etc, I'm not entirely doubting that Gearbox screwed them, but at the same time I think we need to keep in mind that fresch is a habitual liar with a history of failed projects he probably blames on someone else. Ironically, it sounds like they probably would have been a perfect fit together.

Edit: fuegerstef remembers what I said pretty clearly, and I stand by those statements. The code appeared to be in a state consistent with some unfinished crap nobody had really even been working on, there was zero interactivity (not even glass breaking when shot), the weapons were broken and so on but what was finished in the map looked very nice and all of the art was top notch.

[ReaperMan]

TX, on 13 February 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

...but what was finished in the map looked very nice and all of the art was top notch.

Yeah, i remember the art looking very good from the live video they did.

[Bloodshot]

Someone should modify the Duke3D reloaded wikipedia page and put that quote on it, and see if mods take it down or not.

Seriously that's pretty bullshit. Fuck them and their "colonial marines". It's turning out to be a linear action game anyway, nothing like they promised originally with the tactical coop. And they can't even get the sounds right.

So because fans are more interested in this they close it down? That's basically saying "you can do stuff as long as we look better then you in every way".

Randy Pitchford is a whiny bitch anyway. The only things I liked from them were the PC version of Halo 1, and Opposing Force.

Kinda ironic ain't it? The PC version of a console hit has complete mod support, and is more a PC game then DNF ever will be. That's just sad.

[JohnClay]

Bloodshot, on 13 February 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

Someone should modify the Duke3D reloaded wikipedia page and put that quote on it, and see of mods take it down or not.

It might be hard to prove that the quotes are accurate due to Fresch's blog disappearing, etc.

[----]

Bloodshot, on 13 February 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

Kinda ironic ain't it? The PC version of a console hit has complete mod support, and is more a PC game then DNF ever will be. That's just sad.

DIfferent publishers.

Which makes me think that Gearbox is a weak company. They just have no power and blindly follow the publisher and what they are saying.

EPIC for example is a strong company. But they have an own business with their engine licensing, just as VALVE has it's Steam. Gearbox has nothing (Remember when Randy b1tched about Steam? ). And they only make standard games, nothing really outstanding. So they are totally dependant on their publisher's good will and will do everything for them and their money. The Duke Nukem IP should have gone to a strong company.

[EliasCamber]

And look at that, RepoDrive was just banned from the GBX forums as well. That's at least 3 prolific posters banned in 2 days, for discussing issues related to this. Is Gearbox trying to set a record or something?

[Mad Max RW]

Jeez, that's like half the people who still post on their board.