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Will There Be Any Mods and Expansions Made for DNF?

#1

I know that the game has only just recently been released, and that it is too soon for any DNF based mod community to thrive, but is there any chance that the bright minds behind previous Duke-related mods to develop any fan made modifications and expansion packs for DNF? Although I've seen many complaints about the game being imperfect (my gripe is no DR PROTON!!!), but surely modders could perfect any flaws they've noticed in the game through their own level, enemy, npc, and weapon design, right?

I'm assuming that a DNF editor has not been released yet, or the tools available for use are complicated. If you had the means to do mods for DNF, would you do so? If so, what mods would you want to do for the game?
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User is offline   Hank 

#2

My guess, yes, there will be mods done. People are already hacking away. A custom level editor would be a nice gift. But so far I have seen zero hope for one. Yet, all that means is that it will take a while for the proverbial First New Level, First New Model etc. but come it will. http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#3

View PostFlying Techbot, on 23 June 2011 - 04:27 PM, said:

I'm assuming that a DNF editor has not been released yet


Maybe you should stop assuming and making new threads, and instead do a bit of research.

No modding tools have been released. They say it's something they'd like to do but this is a typical response and doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Expansions will be released. Official expansions, 3 of them. One adding weapons, one adding more multiplayer content, and the other adding 15 singleplayer levels.
Anyone who's a modder for the previous duke games (mostly duke nukem 3D) would likely not have the experience to work on something like the DNF engine, as the build engine is completely different to all current engines, so they'd rather keep modding for Duke 3D then move over.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#4

I don't see a long term mod community forming behind DNF without access to the official SDK. The game has two things going against it: no mod support and it isn't very good to begin with. That's a total motivation killer. How many mediocre games without mod support continued to flourish 6 months after launch? Once again I have to bring up AvP3. A year and a half later and all the community has produced is a handful of shoddy player skins. More could have been done but the people with the know-how abandoned the game because it was just not all that good.

Does this mean DNF will go down the same road? Based on history, yes. There's always a chance things will be different. Gearbox may release editing tools when they're done with DLC. It's possible determined fans will crack the engine long before then. I'm not getting my hopes up.
-1

User is offline   Spirrwell 

  • tile 1018

#5

View PostMad Max RW, on 24 June 2011 - 05:00 AM, said:

I don't see a long term mod community forming behind DNF without access to the official SDK. The game has two things going against it: no mod support and it isn't very good to begin with. That's a total motivation killer. How many mediocre games without mod support continued to flourish 6 months after launch? Once again I have to bring up AvP3. A year and a half later and all the community has produced is a handful of shoddy player skins. More could have been done but the people with the know-how abandoned the game because it was just not all that good.

Does this mean DNF will go down the same road? Based on history, yes. There's always a chance things will be different. Gearbox may release editing tools when they're done with DLC. It's possible determined fans will crack the engine long before then. I'm not getting my hopes up.

Why did Triptych continue to work on Duke Nukem Forever after 3DRealms shutdown. It's Duke Nukem damnit, and if the developers are willing to let Duke die by not releasing mod tools, I guarantee you a hardcore fan will. We won't let Duke Nukem die because of someone else's fuck up. Whether it be because of Gearbox, 2k\T2, 3DRealms, or a mix, it doesn't matter, we can't let Duke Nukem die.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#6

In most cases releasing the tools isn't up to the developer. The publisher has the final call. Gearbox could rally behind the community to convince them it's the right thing to do and would benefit the game, but I've never seen them do it in the past.

About the hardcore fans, Micky C nailed it earlier. Very few will have the time, motivation, and ability to accomplish much of anything. It's easier and far more rewarding to stick with Duke Nukem 3D and eduke32 editing. DNF is one of those cases where the fans can't sit and expect another person to mod the game for them like the past. If you want something you're going to have to learn how to do it yourself. It's highly unlikely a mysterious super hero of modding is going to wave his magic wand and make new maps and mods appear out of thin air.
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User is offline   Jim Rockford 

  • Banned on Rigel

#7

Not to mention the fact that modding a modern game is extremely hard. The landscape is vastly different these days. This is why Doom has a larger modding community than Half Life 2 ever had. HL2 mods are all dogshit, to boot.
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User is offline   Kathy 

#8

Could it be more contributed to Doom source code being available?
0

User is offline   DerickVonD 

#9

Half-life 1 or 2 is not ridiculously hard to make maps for. Doom 1 and 2 might have more mods simply because they are a lot older. Most mods never get finished no matter what game it is.
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User is offline   Jim Rockford 

  • Banned on Rigel

#10

View PostHelel, on 24 June 2011 - 02:02 PM, said:

Could it be more contributed to Doom source code being available?

It's certainly a part of it, it's made practically everything easier and faster. Though, having the source of newer games would probably have little impact.

View PostDerickVonD, on 24 June 2011 - 02:25 PM, said:

Half-life 1 or 2 is not ridiculously hard to make maps for. Doom 1 and 2 might have more mods simply because they are a lot older. Most mods never get finished no matter what game it is.

You are mistaking what I am saying. Yes of course, using the editors for these games is rather easy, however, creating a high quality level for these games using the basic assets is rather difficult. Nine times out of ten your resources aren't applicable for what you'll wanna do, so you have to build your own resources. Thereby if you want to create a high quality level only using basic resources you'll usually just end up creating a level based around the same centric themes that were already in the game. Anyone who has mapped for Duke or Doom knows that most of your resources can serve a variety of purposes because of their low resolution, and in that same vein creating new high quality resources is a lot easier. One man can build a mod for Duke or Doom in half the time it takes a team to create a mod for a new game. It's just how technology has progressed, nowadays practically everyone who builds levels has to also know how to create models. In the past that was not true, you could get by just being a graphic artist.

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 24 June 2011 - 04:09 PM

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User is offline   WedgeBob 

#11

Unreal Technology is not that tough to learn, either. In fact, if you've been over to 3D Buzz, you'd have a laundry list of video tutorials on how to map in both the UE2.5 and UE3 engines. Although you'd probably be better off learning the older Unreal Tech, since that's what DNF used.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#12

Also, when using Source (HL2) you need to wait practically forever for your work to compile before testing. UDK (UE3) is instantaneous. However, like what Captain Awesome said, map making with modern games requires a shit ton of experience in creating high poly models. So everything has a pro and con. I really think the only future for Duke Nukem modding is the continued work put into eduke32.
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User is offline   DerickVonD 

#13

Have you seen the GearBox forum lately? They are working on making fucking posters. Playing DNF on 360 and making poster, yeah real productive gearbox. I might just see how long it takes for me to get banned on there, after all there is no point if they never release mod tools. I'm Shiznown on that forum btw.

This post has been edited by DerickVonD: 24 June 2011 - 11:51 PM

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User is offline   Jim Rockford 

  • Banned on Rigel

#14

View PostWedgeBob, on 24 June 2011 - 04:29 PM, said:

Unreal Technology is not that tough to learn, either. In fact, if you've been over to 3D Buzz, you'd have a laundry list of video tutorials on how to map in both the UE2.5 and UE3 engines. Although you'd probably be better off learning the older Unreal Tech, since that's what DNF used.

3DR said that having experience in a modern engine is helpful, but you'll have to relearn a lot of stuff. DNF's engine is barely the Unreal engine it began as, and as such mapping for it is vastly different.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#15

The Duke modding community went from 0 experience with models when the source was first released, to one of the best HRP's out there. I think the community will rise to the challenge if the tools are there.
1

User is offline   DerickVonD 

#16

It's bs the way they're talking. Oh the engine is just so advanced. Well so what. They're acting like you need to have a PHD in quantum physics to make a level. Wtf did aliens from a distance galaxy make the fucking game or highly advanced robots from the future? No human developers made the game, so someone with a similar or higher IQ could easily learn to engine and make a map.

This post has been edited by DerickVonD: 25 June 2011 - 07:44 PM

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User is offline   Jim Rockford 

  • Banned on Rigel

#17

You're thinking too inside the box. Just because the tools get released doesn't mean that documentation gets released. THAT is likely the reason we won't see tools released at all.
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User is offline   DerickVonD 

#18

View PostCaptain Awesome, on 25 June 2011 - 08:04 PM, said:

You're thinking too inside the box. Just because the tools get released doesn't mean that documentation gets released. THAT is likely the reason we won't see tools released at all.

whats the problem with releasing documents? would only take a few days to make them.
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User is offline   DerickVonD 

#19

If Id, Bethesda and Valve ever decide to become corporate douches I'm going to stop buying games.
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#20

View PostDerickVonD, on 25 June 2011 - 08:25 PM, said:

If Id, Bethesda and Valve ever decide to become corporate douches I'm going to stop buying games.

Id are there since Bethesda bought them and Valve went straight into the micro transaction territory.
All 3 of them are already as corporate as it can get. The thing that keeps them from being in the same boat with all the others is that their marketing strategy is less miserable and also provides quality for their products when you compare them with let's say... 2k or Activision for ex.

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 26 June 2011 - 12:18 AM

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User is offline   Jim Rockford 

  • Banned on Rigel

#21

View PostDerickVonD, on 25 June 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

whats the problem with releasing documents? would only take a few days to make them.

They'd have to be willing to do it. Remember, getting a corporation to do something that takes time and work is difficult enough if you pay them. They'd be releasing this for free. It's unlikely.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#22

Considering how many times the engine was rewritten I highly doubt there ever was internally organized documentation. They don't intend for other people to use it so they never bothered. A team of a couple dozen people can memorize how things work and find writing stuff down unnecessary throughout development. You will find dev comments within the files, but rarely anything else. If DNF was being sold on the prospect of sustainable mod making (like Half Life 2) they would have spent the extra time writing extremely detailed docs. But they didn't, which tells me they never will release anything. Look at how they handled the dedicated servers. They did such a half assed job, why in the hell should we expect more from them?
2

#23

"But they didn't, which tells me they never will release anything."

3DR always intended to release mod tools. Mod tools are released all the time with little to no documentation and what is released often sucks, is incomplete and sometimes plain wrong.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#24

Yeah, tell me about it. I love modding for AvP Classic, but the tools came with no official documentation so I've had to figure everything out on my own. Because of that the game never had a thriving mod community and so few people had the patience and motivation to learn. I have no reason to believe DNF will be an exception if they release the tools in a similar state.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 26 June 2011 - 02:30 PM

0

User is offline   Hank 

#25

View PostKristian Joensen, on 26 June 2011 - 01:39 PM, said:

"But they didn't, which tells me they never will release anything."

3DR always intended to release mod tools. Mod tools are released all the time with little to no documentation and what is released often sucks, is incomplete and sometimes plain wrong.

No they did not! That's why I left in 2000. George was crystal clear on this. "TOO Complicated; or "it's ten times more complicated as Build." They had no intention integrating software for the public's use - methinks.

Also, I withdraw my first statement. I read through 79 pages at Gearbox regarding mod tools - there is no hope in hell for official mod tools. BUT, shit like that won't stop hard core hackers. Its' just no one will see the results! http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif

Oh well, next ... http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif
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User is offline   DerickVonD 

#26

Well atleast we know they aren't going to make much money on their "DCL". Everyone including me is going to be playing Skyrim and Rage.
-1

User is offline   Hank 

#27

There are sufficient job openings in this community to keep one busy for a long time. - http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif just mouthing off http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#28

Who needs DNF mod tools? We've got eduke32, baby!
1

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