[Spiker]

No no no *.art files is where old 8 bit sprites are stored, don't touch them! Your models will be in your custom folder. Duke3d.def is a file. You won't find it, you have to create it yourself and put it in the main dir if you don't want to use the HRP, it's just typical text file.

[The Commander]

Nukester10, on 15 April 2011 - 10:51 AM, said:

One other thing,I couldn't find a folder named,duke3d.def

What exactly IS the name of the file your talking about?

Is it one of the Con files?

(Face palm)
Hence why we have said all along to just download the HRP to take a look at how it is structured out etc, would have saved about 10 unneeded posts here.

[Nukester10]

The Commander, on 15 April 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

just download the HRP to take a look at how it is structured out etc

So that's exactly what I did.I placed HRP within the eduke32 folder and fired up the eduke32exe

Next,I decided to play through the first map E1M1 while experimenting under,

(VIDEO SETUP)
RESOLUTION (800x600) Windowed
RENDERER 32-BIT OPENGL

TEXTURE FILTER <<<<<< Now this is where things started to get very interesting.Before installing HRP it was set at NEAR_MM_LIN
Then I changed it to LINEAR and noticed that during gameplay the screen would freeze alot under
this setting mostly when there was something going on,explosions,monsters shooting,stuff like that.

The next setting I tried was, BILINEAR and under this setting the same kind of thing was occurring.

Finally,I settled with TRILINEAR because even under the most action related scenes,I found there to be absolutely
no freeze framing at all,as well as lag during gameplay.

I didn't bother trying the setting called NEAREST because I assumed it was a lowres setting in comparison
to the other three settings I mentioned.


All running under a,

Dell Dimension 8400 Series
4 CPU 3.00 GHz
2.99 GHz,2.25 GB of RAM
Nvidia GeoForce 9400 GT videocard

Originally, this rig came stock with just 1 Gig of videocard ram and then I upgraded it later on but wish I would have waited around, when the Quadcore chipsets came out just months later,now there pretty common.

Could someone explain what the differences are in these video settings?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next upon viewing the HRP files I looked inside a folder titled,"highpal" and I noticed a lot of Png files that graphically looked very similar,a bunch of colored lines in each one and I don't have clue what there for?

Then I looked inside the folder titled,"highres" and noticed 8 manila colored folders and beneath them 6 "deffiles".
The file that interested me the most was titled,"Characters deffile" and I looked inside and viewed the file titled,

// Pole Stripper/FEM2 (1317)
model "highres/sprites/characters/1317_stripper.md3" {
scale 3 shade 3
skin { pal 0 file "highres/sprites/characters/1317_stripper.png" }
skin { pal 10 file "highres/sprites/characters/1317_stripper_10.png" }
skin { pal 11 file "highres/sprites/characters/1317_stripper_11.png" }
skin { pal 12 file "highres/sprites/characters/1317_stripper_12.png" }
skin { pal 13 file "highres/sprites/characters/1317_stripper_13.png" }
skin { pal 14 file "highres/sprites/characters/1317_stripper_14.png" }
skin { pal 15 file "highres/sprites/characters/1317_stripper_15.png" }
skin { pal 16 file "highres/sprites/characters/1317_stripper_16.png" }
skin { pal 21 file "highres/sprites/characters/1317_stripper_21.png" }
skin { pal 23 file "highres/sprites/characters/1317_stripper_23.png" }
anim { frame0 "frame1" frame1 "frame4" fps 4 flags 0 }
frame { frame "frame1" tile0 1317 tile1 1320 }

The reason I want to point out this "deffile" is because,I imported and viewed this MD3 mesh within Blender.
It was a wireframe and under editmode, the vertices showed up but then I was wondering where in the heck
the textures where at and when I opened the manila folder titled,"Characters" it all made more sense to me,
because the last time I saw anything like this,I was using Milkshape3D.Now as far as skinning goes for
Milkshape3D mods,you had to use a program called,"Lithunwrap".

I guess my next question is going to be,what program do you actually use to skin these mods in and if it's Blender,
how do you import these Png files and apply the skin to your wiremesh?



Also can you view the mods fully skinned in Blender to begin with under texture mode?

This next pic I don't understand because,being these mods are originals,where are the bones at to be animated,there are none!?



One off the wall final question I have is,what would happen if you happened to remove editart and tried to run eduke32?I mean,if all you are using at this point, is recreated highres textures all contained outside the editart program to begin with and nothing from the ART files editart used previously,would it even be wise to try this?

[Wolf]

Nukester10, on 16 April 2011 - 09:32 PM, said:

a) Next upon viewing the HRP files I looked inside a folder titled,"highpal" and I noticed a lot of Png files that graphically looked very similar,a bunch of colored lines in each one and I don't have clue what there for?

b) This next pic I don't understand because,being these mods are originals,where are the bones at to be animated,there are none!?

c) One off the wall final question I have is,what would happen if you happened to remove editart and tried to run eduke32?I mean,if all you are using at this point, is recreated highres textures all contained outside the editart program to begin with and nothing from the ART files editart used previously,would it even be wise to try this?

For A: Highpal contain hue alterations to recreate the effect of the original duke3d palettes in highres textures.
B: There were probably bones in the source files, but the compiled md2/md3 format does not have to contain this information to function. All the motions of the vertices are recorded in each of the frames.
C: What purpose would removing editart.exe from the duke directory serve? It doesn't rely on it to function. And besides, better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

[Tea Monster]

MD3 format does not contain bones. You need MD5 for that, which eduke dosen't support.

http://www.geeks3d.c...ing-uv-mapping/

[The Commander]

Wolf, on 16 April 2011 - 10:06 PM, said:

C: What purpose would removing editart.exe from the duke directory serve? It doesn't rely on it to function. And besides, better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

I think he actually means removing all the "TILES###.ART" from the .grp/folder.

If he did this then the game would just crash.

[Nukester10]

Wolf, on 16 April 2011 - 10:06 PM, said:

B: There were probably bones in the source files, but the compiled md2/md3 format does not have to contain this information to function. All the motions of the vertices are recorded in each of the frames.

Ok,it sounds to me like this mod had bones in it when it was first keyframed but just as soon as the
keyframing process was finished.The bones where"Deleted Out"then the model was saved as an MD3 file.

This seems like the only logical choice to have happened.Why? because if the model was actually saved
in MD3 format without the bones first being removed,once the model was imported back into Blender like
in the last pic I provided,why wouldn't you then see the bones again?That would be like saying that
once the file was converted into MD3 format,the conversion process would automatically delete out all the bones
and I for one have a hard time trying to believe that to be a distinct possibly.I'm not saying it's an impossibility,I just have a hard time believing it.

In relation to what you said,I would find it more of a possibility,if you did not "Delete Out" the bones when you went to create the MD3 file that,once you tried to run it within the eduke32.exe you would end up getting some kind of"error message(s)"only because the bones where still left in and not removed in the final process.

[TerminX]

Nukester10, on 17 April 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

That would be like saying that once the file was converted into MD3 format,the conversion process would automatically delete out all the bones
and I for one have a hard time trying to believe that to be a distinct possibly.I'm not saying it's an impossibility,I just have a hard time believing it.

That's exactly how it works. The MD3 format does not support bones and bone based animation. Any animations present would be converted into vertex based animations when the model is exported to MD3.

[Nukester10]

Tea Monster, on 17 April 2011 - 01:31 AM, said:

http://www.geeks3d.c...ing-uv-mapping/

I appreciate the tutorial you provided,as a matter of fact here is a pic from that tutorial on
creating a square cube and applying UV mapping,



Here's a pic of the Png file,the skin for this mod 1317

Now,could you possibly explain how it would be possible for one to go from UV mapping
something as simple as a cube to something like this?Btw,shapes like these where never
mentioned in that tutorial either.

[Nukester10]

The Commander, on 17 April 2011 - 02:21 AM, said:

I think he actually means removing all the "TILES###.ART" from the .grp/folder.
If he did this then the game would just crash.

Yes,that is exactly what I meant and no I won't remove that file then,

Thanks

[Nukester10]

TX, on 17 April 2011 - 09:46 PM, said:

That's exactly how it works. The MD3 format does not support bones and bone based animation. Any animations present would be converted into vertex based animations when the model is exported to MD3.

Ok,I'll take your word for it.Now that we got that out of the way,I shouldn't have to worry about deleting the bones when I go to create
a file in this situation into MD3 format.One less job to worry about anyhow,

Thanks

[Tea Monster]

Nukester10, on 17 April 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

... I for one have a hard time trying to believe that to be a distinct possibly.I'm not saying it's an impossibility,I just have a hard time believing it...

Why would I lie to you about a freaking 3D file format? That's like all those crazy creationists who think that God put Dinosaur fossils in the ground just to trap the unfaithful.
Take it up withthis guy, his company invented the format.

UV Mapping tuts:
http://vimeo.com/21943368
The vid is for the 2.5x series, but the same should apply for 2.49b

[bullerbullerseven]

Dude, calm down.

[Nukester10]

Tea Monster, on 18 April 2011 - 11:08 AM, said:

Why would I lie to you about a freaking 3D file format? That's like all those crazy creationists who think that God put Dinosaur fossils in the ground just to trap the unfaithful.
Take it up withthis guy, his company invented the format.

UV Mapping tuts:
http://vimeo.com/21943368
The vid is for the 2.5x series, but the same should apply for 2.49b

Sorry, but I never implied that you where a liar.Thanks for posting THIS vid though.This vid here makes the whole concept a whole lot more understandable then the last one,

Thanks Again

[bullerbullerseven]

What the fuck is up with all the downvotes here?

[Tea Monster]

Nukester10, on 18 April 2011 - 12:32 PM, said:

Sorry, but I never implied that you where a liar.Thanks for posting THIS vid though.This vid here makes the whole concept a whole lot more understandable then the last one,

Thanks Again

No problem.

[Nukester10]

Ok,recently I've decided to go with Blender 2.53 instead of the earlier version.
I installed the python script within the "io" file.
Here is a pic,it appears to be properly installed correctly.



I guess this is a oneshot deal,because if you press the import tab it doesn't show (md3)

According to the script writer Xembie,under "Custom Properties/Add"
your supposed to put "md3shader" then next to that "models/s.jpg"
I guess my question would be.Are you supposed to imput this everytime
you go to create an MD3 mod? The reason I'm asking this is because,
once you exit Blender and return again,you won't see this setup.
Just out of curiosity,I was wondering "what if" you impute this
info in,then you got rid of the default setting file known as the ".b"file
Would this cause this setup to remain everytime you restarted Blender,
Just wondering?

I have a question as well about this next pic.
In an earlier post on here,it was decided that once you've exported the MD3
you would have combined both the mesh file,the MD3,along with the PNG file.
Ok,so if this is true,I'm just wondering why in this next pic there wouldn't be
1 file instead of 2?Notice in this pic for every MD3 file,there is a matching
PNG file to go along with it?Are you following me?



In final I wanted to mention also that i've recently updated Gimp as well
and the amount of files it excepts has been upgraded not surprisingly.

I keep wondering all the time how this process is created from start to finish.
This is how I perceive things,

1.Once you've UV mapped your mod your supposed to export it by pressing the
UV tab.The only problem with that is at the top of this tab is says,
EXPORT THE MESH AS AN SVG>>>> <memory2>.svg <<<<<<<

Ok,so what is this "svg"thing all about?

If I press this tab I noticed that,in the second address bar beneath the file location bar,
I can actually change this from"<memory2>.svg"to a tga file but once I open the file
in the Gimp the file looks all crappy looking.I read somewhere about making sure when
using Blender 2.5 and up that you really need to make sure that the proportions of your
saved file are like in fixed increments for example 64x64 etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that,I know somebody's gonna say,"duh,just press the
MD3 tab like you have in the pic above,that's what it's for."Yeah I know,I just want to make
sure I'm doing these steps properly if you know what I mean.
That still doesn't explain though how Blender would generate a PNG file and at the same time
a MD3 file?LOL,I don't know,is that what actually happens when you press the "Export"Tab,
It creates 2 files instead of one, LMAO.Because if that's true, that's one hell of a script?

[Tea Monster]

Stay away from 2.5 at the moment as far as exporting MD3's is concerned. Not that there is anything wrong with 2.5 - it's actually light-years ahead of the old Blender for animations and general useability. You can even view normal maps in the viewport of 2.57 correctly now (the old Blender reversed the green and red channels). The big problem is that they did a major re-write on the scripting system and a lot of the exporters got broken when they upgraded. People are re-writing them, but there is no way of knowing when Xembie will do his or anyone else will port an MD3 exporter over to the new code.

I know I originally said that it worked, but since I wrote that post, I tried out 2.53 and Xembie's exporter with a different animated mesh and it DIDN'T export the animation . I'm going to fiddle with it to see if I can get it working, but I would recommend anyone else just stay away until a new exporter gets issued. Meanwhile, I've asked Plagman if he can adjust his script to work with 2.5.

- Yes, its a one way street , there is no importer yet. Xembie gives an example on his website on how to set it up. You need to add a property under custom properties, then click edit then re-name it.
-The model has to be tri-angulated (the 2.4 versions do this for you on export and it's easy to forget).

It sounds like you had selected the SVG exporter. SVG is a vector (Illustrator/Inkscape) graphic format. It's like an open source version of PostScript.

[Plagman]

The main issue with 2.5 right now (which is by design) is that the plug-in API is still in churn, meaning that scripts can (and do) get broken by any new development happening to the unstable 2.5x codeline. As soon as it gets declared stable, I'll make sure that we have a working set of tools to export models for use with EDuke32. For now, you should probably the latest 2.4 version with the scripts that I put in the EDuke32 source tree; I fixed up the ASE importer and MD3 exporter to retain normals exactly as they were imported, so that you can get working smoothing groups all the way from 3DS Max.

[Plagman]

Since the stable release I just mentioned actually happened while I was away, this will be happening sooner than expected.

[Tea Monster]

Whoo-hoo!

[Nukester10]

Tea Monster I went back to Blender 2.49b like you suggested.
I was able to create an MD3 file,export it as well as import it,

When I imported it though I noticed extra wires to vertices,
criss crossing all over the place that where not there when
I created to mod.Why this is happening maybe you know?

I exported a UV map twice.Once for the MD3 and also using
the same Blender buffered mod for the png file.

Here's what I had checked off, Scripts>Save UV Face Layout>UV Image Export

Size: 512
Wire: 1
Wrap <<<<< Check
All Faces <<<<< Check
Object
SVG
Fill SVG Faces
Edit <<<<< Check "Gimp"

Maybe there was some things I should or should not have checked off?

This other Tab was called,"Seams From Islands" and I'm assuming it's meant for another type of modeling.

Like I said,I dropped both files into the "props" folder and I still can't get this chunk of code to work yet,

}

// Table (3711)
model "highres/sprites/props/3711_Table1.md3" {
scale 3 shade 4
skin { pal 0 file "highres/sprites/props/3711_Table1.png" }
frame { name "Frame0" tile 3711 }
}

It looks alright to me,what do you think?

Oh yeah,one final thing,first I tried creating a sprite of my own inside editart ,it was located at the very end of the duke files It was a pink tile and lol I couldn't see it when I hit the "S"key.Next I tried this 3711 file.It's part of a Tiles014ART package I got off of RCTM.Now this was a wood looking tile ok,the "png"tile I had was a wood looking tile.I added the wood with a magic wand one plank at a time within Gimp,I figured what this 3711 tile looked like wouldn't in the end interfere with the "png"file.Maybe I'm overthinking this project I don't know,what is your view on this? whew!

[Tea Monster]

If you are exporting the UV map for painting, uncheck 'All Faces'. Its probably picking up extra items in the blend file and displaying those UV coords.


In this pic, the criss-cross lines are from another mesh that got accidently selected along with the model in question.

I don't think that putting the editor in that space actually does anything (the new Blender can pass images to your graphics app though )
Be aware that there are currently no known MD3 importers for Blender that import animations on MD3s. That one from the Cube site will import still models. To check your model after you've exported it, It is best to use something like NPherno's MD3 compiler or Misfit Model 3D.

Your def file looks OK generally, but double check your frame name. It has to be exactly what is in the MD3 file. If you are using the Cube exporter it's going to be "frame_0" or "frame_1". If you are using Plagmans it will be "FRAME1" or "FRAME0". Its very important that its correct. Computers are stupid. They will only do EXACTLY what you tell them to. When writing your def file, it can be very easy to misspell something or fudge up capitalization and spend an hour tearing your hair out wondering why it won't work. You can send me the model if you like and I'll take a look at it.

Generally, if, after you set everything up and you open the game - if you see the sprite, something is wrong with your model defs - if you see nothing, or it looks really weird, then its usually your image defs.

[Nukester10]

What is the cube site your talking about?
Here's a pic of me retrieving the file and of the table I made I told you about earlier,notice the extra wires all about
that shouldn't be there?



Notice how the file reads, "3711_Table1.md3" I later tried to match this file up with the others.Originally it read just,"Table1.md3"
By me changing the title to this file later on could this possibly screw up the file?

Quote

Your def file looks OK generally, but double check your frame name. It has to be exactly what is in the MD3 file. If you are using the Cube exporter it's going to be "frame_0" or "frame_1". If you are using Plagman's it will be "FRAME1" or "FRAME0". Its very important that its correct.

Here's the code again, notice I changed it from "Frame0" to "Frame_0"

Btw no matter whether or not I changed it to Frame_1 Frame1 Frame_0 or Frame0
it didn't make any difference,this was still not working.

}
// Table (3711)
model "highres/sprites/props/3711_Table1.md3" {
scale 3 shade 4
skin { pal 0 file "highres/sprites/props/3711_Table1.png" }
frame { name "Frame_0" tile 3711 }
}

To begin with I don't understand why you're doing this "underline" thing?
Here are a few examples of definitions already in the file I did not create,

}

// Shopping cart (4576)
model "highres/sprites/props/4576_shoppingcart.md3" {
scale 1 shade 0
detail { file "highres/detail/metal_worn.png" detailscale 0.3 }
skin { pal 0 file "highres/sprites/props/4576_shoppingcart.png" }
frame { name "Frame0" tile 4576 }
}

// Pipe (4583)
model "highres/sprites/props/4583_pipe.md3" {
scale 0.778 shade 0
detail { file "highres/detail/metal.png" detailscale 0.3 }
skin { pal 0 surface 0 file "highres/sprites/props/4585.png" }
detail { file "highres/detail/metal.png" detailscale 0.3 }
skin { pal 0 surface 1 file "highres/sprites/props/0994_pipe.jpg" }
frame { name "Frame0" tile 4583 }
}

// Bloody baseball bat (4946)
model "highres/sprites/props/4946_bloodybat.md3" {
scale 1 shade 8
skin { pal 0 file "highres/sprites/props/4946_bloodybat.png" }
frame { name "Frame0" tile 4946 }

Notice any difference?
Like I said,these are definitions that where already in the "props"folder when I opened it.
My question being why are you placing a "_"in between the Frame and Frame number next to it
when in the actual code they are not doing this?

I'm using the importer you introduced earlier not Plagmans

Here is a pic of me using Dosbox to open up Editart and what I'm showing you here is where the location of the tiles
begin that are not Duke3D related,



Now as I scroll down to the bottom of this tilelist,in this pic I'm actually showing you the tile I chose to use,
the "3711"tile,



Actually,it's the last tile in this collection.

Here is that same tile in editart,



Do you see anything wrong here?

Again,here are a couple of pics of the tile in question on a simple map I made,





Here is a pic of the same tile in the same map in 3D mode,



The sprite kept following me around so after this I changed it to "cst 17" so it would
stand still.I don't know if it makes any difference though?

Here finally,is a pic of the "png"file I told you about earlier within Gimp,



As long as this post is,they say a picture speaks a thousand words so I thought you might be able to figure out what needs to be corrected if you notice any errors?

[The Commander]

If you just posted the model along with the texture then I am sure we would have it working in about 2 minutes and show you how we did it instead of you spending 30 minutes trying to explain why it isn't working.

[Spiker]

When you export to md3 the mesh gets triangulated. This is why every quad face is divided into 2 triangles. This can be a problem when you want to edit the mesh after importing it from md3 file but there is a button called "remove triangles" or something like that. Of course you should never import your own models but use the source files instead.

[Nukester10]

The Commander, on 27 April 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

If you just posted the model along with the texture then I am sure we would have it working in about 2 minutes and show you how we did it instead of you spending 30 minutes trying to explain why it isn't working.

Here is the Link to the MD3 mod file,

http://www.mediafire...otx8zsjl74ossjd

and here's the Link to the png file,

http://www.mediafire...gt7u3qqi3drc7bk

[Tea Monster]

You have a couple of problems here.

1. Your frame name is wrong. It's 'frame_1'.

2. You have some strange facing polgons (normals). Some are facing in and some are facing out. When the model appears in game, those faces that are facing the wrong way will disappear. I've also highlighted where you find the frame name.



To fix the normals problem, open Blender and set up your viewport like this:



See the blue lines? They are showing you how your normals are configured. To fix the backwards polygons, Just hit 'A' to select all, then 'Cntrl' and 'N'. You will be asked if you want to recalculate normals outside. Say 'Yes'.

3. You have a small problem in that the table is not set to the centre point of the object. It will automatically orient to the centre point in game. So it will appear to be sunk into the ground up to where the centre point is. You can page up in Mapster, but it's better practice to fix it here. Just go into edit mode and hit 'A' to select all and move the table up till the legs meet the red line.



4. You have another problem. See the top of the table? the sides and top only have one side. If you build it like that, If someone looks at the table from below, the underside of the table and the interior sides will disappear. To 'see' the table in game, you need to have faces where people look, and those faces need to be oriented towards the player. You can put faces in duped and rotated, but it's much easier to make the table top 'solid'. You only loose a few polys and its much easier.

[chicken]

Tea Monster, did you look at the uv-map?
When i imported the model the uv-map was only one pixel big.
What does it look like on your end?

[Tea Monster]

No I didn't (opens file again) Uh Oh.

Yep, it needs unwrapping.