Take-Two Sues 3D Realms, ^ Options

[BxB402]

Hey guys. New here(been guest lurking for a while though)...and i see nothing about this on the front page or the forums yet..so here.

http://kotaku.com/5255220/take+two-sues-du...lure-to-deliver

WTF is going on???

[megamustaine]

Hey guys. New here(been guest lurking for a while though)...and i see nothing about this on the front page or the forums yet..so here.

http://kotaku.com/5255220/take+two-sues-du...lure-to-deliver

WTF is going on???

I don't know the details of the contract, but come the fuck on. Take 2 didn't invest a dime into the game. They just bought a company that holds the rights. Go fuck yourself T2!

[Redcard]

As I have said, repeatedly..

We don't know what kind of contract T2 had with 3dr. (Or inherited.. or even if that was renegotiated)

They may have or may not have had a clause in there to recoup damages if the product was not completed.

This will come out in court.

[BxB402]

I have been following this since I heard 3DR got shut down. It's getting more insane as the days go by.

Then again...this could be great motivation to finish DNF. I'm so torn between wanting all this waiting and wondering to end, and actually playing DNF at some point. I guess we will see how it plays out.

[Damien_Azreal]

This just feels bad all the way around.
3DRealms are not in a position to battle such a lawsuit, specially against a company that was able to turn down a buyout plan from EA.

If this suit is real and goes through... Take2 could get DNF, package and ship it. We would get the game... but unfinished and not the vision George had. Will have to watch where this heads.
__________________

Proud Monolith Fanboy Since 1997

"It's howdy doody time kiddies, the bad man is here!" - Caleb - Blood 2: The Chosen

[Techbot]

Considering that 3DR has shut down due to lack of funds, it seems kinda odd that Take 2 would be suing them... unless they were hoping 3DR would be forced to sell the Duke IP if they lost the case. Either way, it seems that Take 2 is still keen to get their hands on DNF (I can't see a big company like T2 suing a small, possibly skint company like 3DR just for the money) which does bring a little hope for the future with it.

- Paul

[Wieder]

I have been following this since I heard 3DR got shut down. It's getting more insane as the days go by.

Then again...this could be great motivation to finish DNF. I'm so torn between wanting all this waiting and wondering to end, and actually playing DNF at some point. I guess we will see how it plays out.

Lawsuits are pretty much never conducive to finishing a game. This stuff can potentially take years depending on how it is setup and goes and that means the project can't even *try* to move forward until everything is resolved with it

The main story talks about a "second agreement" in 2007, so who knows what that is but this looks messy.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=new...id=a5LJCCRIwYg0

[Redcard]

This just feels bad all the way around.
3DRealms are not in a position to battle such a lawsuit, specially against a company that was able to turn down a buyout plan from EA.

If this suit is real and goes through... Take2 could get DNF, package and ship it. We would get the game... but unfinished and not the vision George had. Will have to watch where this heads.

It'll head precisely where the contract says.

Take2 paid $12 million for the distribution rights, on the premise, more than likely that the game would be done.

They are a publicly traded company, and are in a recession, and therefore have a duty to their shareholders to sue people who violate signed contracts.

That's what this is. They're trying to recoup money that they paid in good faith that they would be able to distribute a game and get costs for it.

Again. Don't sign something you can't back up. If you can't back it up, then you have breached it. This likely is a natural reaction of 3dr's failure.

[Rafael]

I have been following this since I heard 3DR got shut down. It's getting more insane as the days go by.

Then again...this could be great motivation to finish DNF. I'm so torn between wanting all this waiting and wondering to end, and actually playing DNF at some point. I guess we will see how it plays out.

You see... I was still hoping for the epic marketing stunt. Was letting all those conspiracy theory into my head. But we were all waiting for something. For some statement. And here it is. It's over. Give up. This couldn't be a better statement. Had George released one, people would still be reading between the lines and coming up with conspiracy theories. Now, it is over. It has shut down.

I wish I had 5 million....

I spent half of my life, virtually, waiting for this game... I feel bad, I feel frustrated. Good bye, Duke.


This post has been edited by Rafael: May 14 2009, 06:23 PM

[Damien_Azreal]

Considering that 3DR has shut down due to lack of funds, it seems kinda odd that Take 2 would be suing them... unless they were hoping 3DR would be forced to sell the Duke IP if they lost the case. Either way, it seems that Take 2 is still keen to get their hands on DNF (I can't see a big company like T2 suing a small, possibly skint company like 3DR just for the money) which does bring a little hope for the future with it.

- Paul

Yeah, this suit is definitely about Take 2 getting their hands on DNF at least.... and posibbly the Duke IP. But they definitely want the DNF game.
__________________

Proud Monolith Fanboy Since 1997

"It's howdy doody time kiddies, the bad man is here!" - Caleb - Blood 2: The Chosen

[Wieder]

Considering that 3DR has shut down due to lack of funds, it seems kinda odd that Take 2 would be suing them... unless they were hoping 3DR would be forced to sell the Duke IP if they lost the case. Either way, it seems that Take 2 is still keen to get their hands on DNF (I can't see a big company like T2 suing a small, possibly skint company like 3DR just for the money) which does bring a little hope for the future with it.

- Paul

You pretty much have to sue. Otherwise you set a precedence for not enforcing your contracts and leave it open for another developer to not finish their game either. This isn't necessarily about getting cash or the IP, none of us knows, but as a business you have to enforce your contracts otherwise you make it almost impossible to enforce the rest. They would have to come to a mutual agreement to terminate the contract in order for it to end without a lawsuit.

They have no real choice but to sue if they weren't able to get an agreement to alter or terminate the contract with 3DR in a way that both people could agree to.

Doesn't mean they *don't* have their eye on a prize, but it had to happen.


This post has been edited by Wieder: May 14 2009, 06:23 PM

[BxB402]

I wonder what exactly this second agreement is. Hmm

and "Take-Two, owner of the publishing rights to the game, said Apogee breached an agreement to design the latest installment of Duke Nukem, a game in which the player “shoots” enemies."

^ LOL, Whoever wrote that must not be very familiar with what a video game is.

[Redcard]

I wonder what exactly this second agreement is. Hmm

and "Take-Two, owner of the publishing rights to the game, said Apogee breached an agreement to design the latest installment of Duke Nukem, a game in which the player “shoots” enemies."

^ LOL, Whoever wrote that must not be very familiar with what a video game is.

Oh, we'll find out. I suspect that a definitive date was set down in stone for finishing the game or returning a set amount of money.

It does kill the belief that there was no agreement between T2 and 3dr, though.. many were stating that the agreement in play was between GoD and 3DR, and then 3DR ended up in T2's hands.

This ends badly, I suspect.

[Ramen4ever]

Definitely an interesting turn of events. I'm more curious as to what's going on behind the scenes than what's being "reported" I can't really see George selling the Duke IP though.

On the bright side.. if your not picking "company" sides and just care about the game, at least there is something going on in regards to its lack of a release.

I'm not sure what to really make of this. Part of me wants the game no matter what. Part of me doesn't want to see George or 3dr get screwed over. And a part of me just doesn't want to see the company get screwed AND the game not being released. That would be the worst.
What I'm most concerned about is the Duke IP.. since DNF was just a game. but Duke is a franchise. And I doubt Take 2 could handle it well enough to satisfy me.
__________________

"Shees, seems like all the good 3dr girls are taken, Baskinator, Raiden and Steve. :o" - The Stinger
"He is... in front of me now, this man... no longer looks kind!" - About Guts, by Jill from Berserk

[Techbot]

You pretty much have to sue. Otherwise you set a precedence for not enforcing your contracts and leave it open for another developer to not finish their game either. This isn't necessarily about getting cash or the IP, none of us knows, but as a business you have to enforce your contracts otherwise you make it almost impossible to enforce the rest. They would have to come to a mutual agreement to terminate the contract in order for it to end without a lawsuit.

They have no real choice but to sue if they weren't able to get an agreement to alter or terminate the contract with 3DR in a way that both people could agree to.

Doesn't mean they *don't* have their eye on a prize, but it had to happen.

Ah, cheers for the info Wieder. Out of interest, what do you think would happen if this DID go to court? Would 3DR be forced to start selling off their assets?

- Paul

[Redcard]

Definitely an interesting turn of events. I'm more curious as to what's going on behind the scenes than what's being "reported" I can't really see George selling the Duke IP though.

On the bright side.. if your not picking "company" sides and just care about the game, at least there is something going on in regards to its lack of a release.

I'm not sure what to really make of this. Part of me wants the game no matter what. Part of me doesn't want to see George or 3dr get screwed over. And a part of me just doesn't want to see the company get screwed AND the game not being released. That would be the worst.
What I'm most concerned about is the Duke IP.. since DNF was just a game. but Duke is a franchise. And I doubt Take 2 could handle it well enough to satisfy me.

If anyone got screwed over, it's Take 2. That's what the purpose of them filing a breach of contract is.

You can't say "I'll do this for X amount of money" and then not do "this" without a consequence.

As for George selling the property, it's likely that he'll have to give a few million bucks back , and if 3dr goes into bankruptcy, than a judge will sell its assets and determines who gets what.

[BxB402]

Best case scenario the Judge could order 3DR to finish the game or owe a ton of money. Doubtful but hey...*high hopes*

[megamustaine]

If anyone got screwed over, it's Take 2. That's what the purpose of them filing a breach of contract is.

You cannot say that without facts. They could file a breach of contract without actually having a case. We will all see in due time, but I feel as though T2 wasn't happy with 3DR decision to just close down.

[Jinroh]

Well, that's certainly an interesting turn of events.

But megamustaine is right they probably weren't happy with 3DR just taking the ball and saying, "Nope it's mine, you can't play with it anymore."

At least this give us reason why George hasn't made a specific statement yet.

[Redcard]

You cannot say that without facts. They could file a breach of contract without actually having a case. We will all see in due time, but I feel as though T2 wasn't happy with 3DR decision to just close down.

They could not have a case.

But all contracts, by law, have to have three things:

1. The object that you are buying/getting
2. The cost you are paying (known as consideration)
3. The status of or condition of a breach. (Usually greater than the consideration)

The fact is, IF any one breached contract, it has to be 3DR.

[Ramen4ever]

I don't particularly care if Take 2 got screwed over, Redcard. If this lawsuit results in them getting the IP.. Duke Nukem would quickly turn into a shitfest of mediocre games. There's the very slim off chance that they give it to a studio that could handle it well. But realistically speaking.. if they get DNF and the Duke IP, we would possibly get a pretty good DNF(unless they start from scratch) followed by a light barrage of turd.
__________________

"Shees, seems like all the good 3dr girls are taken, Baskinator, Raiden and Steve. :o" - The Stinger
"He is... in front of me now, this man... no longer looks kind!" - About Guts, by Jill from Berserk

This post has been edited by Ramen4ever: May 14 2009, 06:45 PM

[folkefiendar]

Here's the court documents filed by take 2:


First 3 are the most important. Looks like all Duke related materials (they direct apogee in this, so could it effect the trilogy in an indirect way?) are in lockdown. I wouldn't expect anymore leaks of duke info/screens/gameplay/game design docs unless someone at 3drealms has BALLS OF STEEL (one could only hope). Gonna be tied up in the new york supreme court for a while so don't expect any duke any time soon.


This post has been edited by folkefiendar: May 14 2009, 06:46 PM

[BxB402]

I don't particularly care if Take 2 got screwed over, Redcard. If this lawsuit results in them getting the IP.. Duke Nukem would quickly turn into a shitfest of mediocre games. There's the very slim off chance that they give it to a studio that could handle it well. But realistically speaking.. if they get DNF and the Duke IP, we would possibly get a pretty good DNF followed by a light barrage of turd.

That all depends on how far along it was. If that document was correct and it was 60% in 08, maybe it's closer to 80% or more now. DNF could realistically be what they wanted...depending on what isn't finished. of course if TT had the IP afterward things wouldn't be looking that great.

Also the percent complete would be a hell of a factor for the judge to make a decision as well. If it's extremely close...the idea of a forced completion to avoid the lawsuid could be a reality.

I love Duke so i'm trying to stay as optimistic as possible...but realistc too.

[EviL AnGeL]

What I'm most concerned about is the Duke IP.. since DNF was just a game. but Duke is a franchise. And I doubt Take 2 could handle it well enough to satisfy me.

Not being funny but could they handle it any worse than 3DR? I think right now Duke is better off given to anybody who could at least then try and do the IP some justice.

I was thinking though that If T2 paid 12 million for the rights and another undisclosed deal in 2007 (say 10 million for the sake of argument) plus the 5 million they were rumored to ask for this year then that's 27 million. Considering how well DNF would sell it doesn't seem like an awful lot to lay out compared to the potential rewards.

I know they probably got sick of the bullshit but taking all that into account and because the game really did seem close, from a purely business and financial point of view it seems like a really dumb move.

[William Gee]

So this was ordered on the 11th, so that's why all the DNF LEAKS got pulled of the net, and now they are trying to get DNF.
__________________

WGRealms.com

[Mikko_Sandt]

Could be a good thing if the alternative is no DNF.

Maybe 3DR should give up without a fight, unless, of course, T2 has no case.

Not that I know anything about what's going on.
__________________

"You think you will crush me because of the blood in your veins?! The Nile will run red with that blood! Only the strong will survive my coming, I am the end of all that is. I am Apocalypse!"

| MSDN: The best Duke3D usermap review site | | BLOG | | Fate Reversal ModDB |

[Redcard]

Not being funny but could they handle it any worse than 3DR? I think right now Duke is better off given to anybody who could at least then try and do the IP some justice.

I was thinking though that If T2 paid 12 million for the rights and another undisclosed deal in 2007 (say 10 million for the sake of argument) plus the 5 million they were rumored to ask for this year then that's 27 million. Considering how well DNF would sell it doesn't seem like an awful lot to lay out compared to the potential rewards.

I know they probably got sick of the bullshit but taking all that into account and because the game really did seem close, from a purely business and financial point of view it seems like a really dumb move.

Well, maybe it wasn't as close as thought.

[BxB402]

Well, maybe it wasn't as close as thought.

We will see. Those court papers are asking for T2 to be shown what is finished at this point...so apparantly they don't even know.

This seems like more of a "We are sick of nothing, show us everything you have and if it's not enough you are SO SUEEEED"

If enough is finished(maybe a year or so from gold) I could see the suit being dropped and 3DR being forced to finish. Like was said before, the money T2 apparantly put into this PALES in comparison to how much they will all make if the game gets released.


This post has been edited by BxB402: May 14 2009, 07:00 PM

[Damien_Azreal]

As I said elsewhere.... George settling out of court would be the best bet. Otherwise T2 and a case like this could completely drive him into the ground.
Settling out of court, handing T2 DNF in it's current state would be the only way not to completely run himself dry and kill his future.
__________________

Proud Monolith Fanboy Since 1997

"It's howdy doody time kiddies, the bad man is here!" - Caleb - Blood 2: The Chosen

[William Gee]

Isn't the fact that the court documents are now posted on the net breaching confidentiality, so they case is now null?
__________________

WGRealms.com